AiG trying to link reality to Genesis

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AiG trying to link reality to Genesis

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue May 08, 2018 3:07 pm

And no doubt conning stupid people - whilst inviting ridicule from everyone else for offering a SPURIOUS link:

https://www.facebook.com/GeorgiaPurdom/
"Watching pictures and videos of the ongoing Kilauea eruption in Hawaii are both fascinating and sad at the same time. People are amazed at how much destruction just this one volcanic eruption is causing. Yet, think about the massive destruction that was caused by the great deep bursting forth (Genesis 7:11) at the time of Noah's flood. It's not hard to understand the major role this played in causing a global catastrophic flood!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... a8544dc762"

I was half expecting some YEC fantasist to start gushing about this volcanism - which is destroying people's homes (but why waste a propaganda opportunity for the YEC version of Noah's Flood). After all a newsworthy volcanic eruption on US SOIL (like Mt St Helens) doesn't come along every day - or every year.

The ongoing events in Hawaii (earthquakes too which might be implied by Genesis 7:11) don't make me think of the 'one-off' event of Noah's Flood in Genesis (which says nothing about anything like sulphur dioxide). But I'm not a YEC propaganda merchant working for Ken Ham.

Stand by for some effusive comments on Purdom's Facebook post.
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Re: AiG trying to link reality to Genesis

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue May 08, 2018 6:54 pm

And this eruption in Hawaii isn't even explosive, it is effusive Dr Purdom. And Kilauea does not fit (as an analogy not a direct confirmation) with AiG's Flood PSEUDO-SCIENCE:

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/na ... rths-past/
"Contrary to conventional (slow-and-gradual) thinking in geology, present volcanoes are not the key to understanding the earth’s past. The volume of lava and deposits was much too large and catastrophic to be explained by today’s volcanic activity.
For old-earth scientists, the location of continental flood basalts above former mantle plumes is explained by slow-and-gradual plate tectonics theory, but Flood geologists point out that the volume is not explained. The conventional idea of a slow rate of mantle flow and plate movements cannot explain such huge volumes of basalt lavas. Indeed, they had to be generated and erupt catastrophically. Even using conventional long-ages dating, these flood basalts were produced in a veritable geologic “instant.”
This is another powerful example of evidence that can be explained by catastrophic plate tectonics during the biblical Flood ...";
'Catastrophic plate tectonics' is FICTION and is NOT supported by Genesis 7:11, which is about fountains being broken up or bursting forth, either:

https://answersingenesis.org/environmen ... e-ice-age/
"Genesis recounts a global, catastrophic event that would have dramatically changed earth’s geology, biology, and climate. Scripture says that “all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights” (Genesis 7:11–12).
The Flood described in Scripture was so massive that the very crust of the earth broke apart. Our planet’s original supercontinent broke into several smaller landmasses. Those new continents apparently shifted about, mountains thrust upward, great cracks extended tens of thousands of miles, and hot magma spewed up through volcanoes and cracks into the oceans. For months, seawater covered the continents and then retreated from the land. These processes produced so much heat that the average ocean temperatures climbed to over 100F (38C), much warmer than today.
This warm ocean set in motion a series of events that would lead to an Ice Age".
Everything in that para after the Genesis 7:11 quote is pure FICTION that is NOT in the Bible, as well as made-up pseudo-science (the only bit that is actually in the Bible is "for months, seawater covered the continents and then retreated from the land").

Mount St Helens in 1980 is no evidence for a historical recent 'global flood' just evidence for violent natural events. Kilauea is even less so if that were possible - the connection between effusive lava causing localised slow destruction right now in Hawaii and a Bible verse referring (apparently) to fountains of water rapidly breaking up or bursting forth WORLDWIDE is completely BOGUS.
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Re: AiG trying to link reality to Genesis

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu May 17, 2018 9:18 pm

Still trying. So what's the connection between the big recent eruptions on Hawaii and the 'Genesis Flood'? Look no further:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSU_8G9 ... O9g9W&t=0s (from 4 minutes 30 seconds in)

Spoiler alert - the main links are a legend of a fictional goddess Pele reaching Hawaii on a canoe, and that the reality of plate tectonics shows that God split up a single supercontinent during or just after the Genesis Flood ie Noah's Flood must have triggered ('catastrophically fast') plate tectonics - and we are observing the 'after effects' of that today. (Isn't historical creation science wonderful?)

And a CORRECTION for Ken Ham. Hawaii is not on the Pacific Ocean Ring of Fire. (But in fact there was an eruption today that has been described as 'explosive'.)
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Re: AiG trying to link reality to Genesis

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun May 20, 2018 6:53 pm

The Flood described in Scripture was so massive that the very crust of the earth broke apart. Our planet’s original supercontinent broke into several smaller landmasses. Those new continents apparently shifted about, mountains thrust upward, great cracks extended tens of thousands of miles, and hot magma spewed up through volcanoes and cracks into the oceans. For months, seawater covered the continents and then retreated from the land. These processes produced so much heat that the average ocean temperatures climbed to over 100F (38C), much warmer than today.
They even know the temperature then. How come - were they there?, to quote Ken Ham? Were there thermometers in those days? Anyway, surely they're not using the derided "historical science", are they?
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Re: AiG trying to link reality to Genesis

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon May 21, 2018 12:05 am

Brian Jordan wrote:
The Flood described in Scripture was so massive that the very crust of the earth broke apart. Our planet’s original supercontinent broke into several smaller landmasses. Those new continents apparently shifted about, mountains thrust upward, great cracks extended tens of thousands of miles, and hot magma spewed up through volcanoes and cracks into the oceans. For months, seawater covered the continents and then retreated from the land. These processes produced so much heat that the average ocean temperatures climbed to over 100F (38C), much warmer than today.
They even know the temperature then. How come - were they there?, to quote Ken Ham? Were there thermometers in those days? Anyway, surely they're not using the derided "historical science", are they?


I agree that they have double standards. Most of this is NOT in the Bible. But continental drift, orogeny and massive volcanoes really happened (usually gradually) in the past - so they must be forced upon the Bible text by these people. With some bogus added precision so as to make the pseudo-science and eisegesis appear justified and reputable.


PS And Vardiman supplied no supporting reference for his '100 F'.
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Mon May 21, 2018 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PS

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon May 21, 2018 12:55 am

Psst - that Hawaiian volcano is producing fountains of lava, and hydrochloric acid and steam in the nearby ocean, not to mention 'laze' and 'vog'. (The steam presumably is associated with localised seawater temperatures of 100 C rather than, obviously, 100 F.)

That current situation around the Big Island sounds almost biblical (when biblical means in accordance with how YECs read the Genesis account of the flood after putting on their 'worldview spectacles').
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AiG still trying to link reality to Genesis

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:26 pm

Purdom came out with more tosh on 18 June:
https://www.facebook.com/GeorgiaPurdom/
"Winter weather advisory for Hawaii? Yep- that's what a large volcanic eruption can do. This may help explain some weather mechanisms that initiated the Ice Age shortly following Noah's Flood: [article in Cleveland.com entitled 'Hawaii is under a winter weather advisory at Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa near erupting Kilauea -- really.']
(The article merely reported:
"As the Kilauea volcano continues to erupt and spew lava across Hawaii's Big Island, the National Weather Service just issued a winter weather advisory for icy conditions on two other volcanoes, nearby Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa.
All in the same day.
A winter weather advisory in June? Don't forget elevation makes a huge difference."

So reality links to the 'fact' of Noah's (worldwide) Flood. If you ADD volcanism to the Bible, ADD an ice age to the Bible, make an UNPROVEN link between the Kilauea eruption and chilly conditions near the top of two other Hawaiian volcanoes on a day in June, and PRETEND that the 2018 Hawaiian eruption could somehow lead to an 'ice age'.
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And to top it all, now there's this crazy bit of fantasy

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:22 pm

https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/ ... d-insight/
'Very Rare June Ice Storm on Hawaiian Mountains Provides Insight into the Flood.'
('Ice storm' is another term for freezing rain; though some of the precipitation appears to have been directly out of fog or cloud.)

The only Bible verse cited by Oard here is Genesis 7:11:
"In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened".
Oard ignores the obvious meaning of 11b - groundwater coming to Earth's surface perhaps following an earthquake. Instead he indulges in eisegesis: "The “fountains of the great deep” busting [sic] open implies the earth’s crust opening in some way. When this happens, one would expect a huge amount of volcanism." But the Bible suggests that flood was all of WATER - and NOT partly of volcanic lava.

Linking a recent event on Hawaii to the flood account in Genesis is beyond ridiculous. But of course they aren't linking to Genesis but to AiG/CMI SPIN on Genesis.

Also, the (utterly fictional) YEC 'post-flood' ice age is supposed to have involved vast amounts of snow - NOT freezing rain (that forms ice on impact either in cold winter conditions or at altitude - when the surface temperature is at or below freezing).

"We know there was much volcanism during the flood." Oh no we do not. It's not in the Bible. By YEC thinking above all it must therefore be misinformation and eisegesis. So his piece does NOT (biblically) help ANYBODY 'understand' the Genesis flood. (These same people condemn other people for misreading or ignoring the Bible.)

"This example shows that rain can be easily produced by hot lava interacting with the sea water in the same way as Kilauea". The Bible describes NO such thing. Re-read Genesis 7:11 Oard - and stop making Genesis say things it does not say. Apart from the fact that a literally worldwide flood almost wiping out humanity is both impossible and not found in history or genetics, Genesis 7 does NOT mention or allude to volcanic eruptions - whether under the oceans or on land as the waters rose or sank.

"...the vapor canopy is not a biblical concept". Nor is the tosh being advanced by Michael Oard.

"So if we multiply this rare event on Hawaii several thousand times, we can get a glimpse into another mechanism for how further rain could have been produced for the 40 days and nights of torrential rainfall worldwide during the early flood." And if we divide the real age of Earth by around a million we get the age YECs insist upon. No problem.

But notice how does not repeat the Purdom Facebook drivel that "this may help explain some weather mechanisms that initiated the Ice Age shortly following Noah's Flood". Assuming he read the Purdom Facebook post in question, it appears that it was too preposterous even for Mr Oard. So all he can offer is an unbiblical mechanism for 'further rain'.

These same people deny (and are currently trying desperately to ignore) that real science allows us to understand how all the huge heatwaves this summer in California, Canada, Iberia, northern Europe and Japan in particular are being enhanced by man-caused climate change specifically how humans have added more of the greenhouse gases carbon dioxide and methane to Earth's atmosphere.

PS to my preceding post:
The new Oard article does cite this report that Purdom never quoted:
http://strangesounds.org/2018/06/lava-f ... sland.html
This article does suggest that "the interaction of lava with sea water has created an unusual weather phenomenon causing freezing rain on the Big Island Summits".

I just sent an email, as follows:
The stupidest YEC claim ever?
https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/ ... d-insight/ 'Very rare ice storm on Hawaiian mountains provides insight into the flood.'
More here (including a brief critique of the new Oard fantasies which echo Purdom fantasies):
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3889&p=52210#p52210
Never mind the fact that NONE of this is in the Bible. It's preposterous nonsense. By the author's own words you have to multiply an unusual event in Hawaii 'several thousand times' to get a 'glimpse' of something. (So stand by for some other YECs to exclaim "what a great article!")
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