YEC Mr Issac Bourne

[a_haworthroberts]

The man appears SERIOUSLY confused. On his Facebook page he is hawking an ICR article about the Big Bang - from 1992:
https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
http://www.icr.org/article/has-big-bang-been-saved/
I thought it was something new rebutting the announcement of 17 March. But then they started to about Dr Duane Gish in the PRESENT tense.

[a_haworthroberts]

http://www.godofevolution.com/goe-testi ... iochemist/
https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie

Still waiting for Bourne even to acknowledge the criticisms ...

[a_haworthroberts]

Yes the arrogant intolerant fraud and science denying YEC Issac Bourne continues to behave like an arrogant intolerant fraud of a YEC WOULD behave ...
http://www.godofevolution.com/goe-testi ... qus_thread

[a_haworthroberts]

https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
Bourne has been ranting about me here.

My email response was as follows:
"I can see nothing in this tirade that is worth responding to in detail. However I simply point out that Mr Bourne is clearly too much of a coward to engage with me directly or address any specific comments I have made. So instead he rants about me on a facebook page inhabited by like-minded extremist Christians and from which I have been previously banned.
I plead guilty to attacking and exposing online lies told by SOME fundamentalist Christians. I have nothing to hide. Needless to say when I went to Bourne's pages he banned me almost instantly. People like him wish they could censor the web. Why? Because their critics often tell the truth about them! More about Bourne here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3406
(This community forum is open to all but YECs still shun it preferring to attack critics from the safety of their own facebook pages.)
Young Earth creationism is a lying apologetics movement within fundamentalist Christianity. They lie about science and they often lie about their critics as well - even other Christians. That includes certain YEC recipients of this email other than Mr Bourne who have wilfully lied about me.
To the person who has commented under Bourne's sermon as follows I ask the following question - are you proud of your behaviour at the second link below? "He has one purpose: to stir up quarrels. Another of his tactics is to get the YEC he is complaining against riled up to the point where we legitimately do get angry and then he uses that as his basis to "hate" on us. Proverbs has a simple solution. "Have nothing to do with a man who stirs up quarrels.""
http://worldviewwarriors.blogspot.co.uk ... istic.html
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogI ... 3666016049
By the way Ken Ham spends a lot of time stirring up quarrels. As my email earlier this week - which was copied to Mr Bourne - highlighted."

Bourne seemed to think that 'Serial Liar' is one word ...

[a_haworthroberts]

https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
The latest comments about me here demonstrate that YEC-ism attracts very bad people - people like Bourne, Sorensen and Wolcott, who do not hesitate to try desperately to smear their critics (who they have never met) based either on things they have not said or a twisting of what they actually have said.

Bad people and hardline religion - a very bad combination.

Good committed Christians in YEC-ism normally extricate themselves from it. I can respect them.


PS My second email:

*Young Earth creationist cowards doing what they do best

https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie [three photos attached]
You wish to portray me as a coward - but I do not avoid discussions with YECs.
As for Jason Petersen, the person who ran away from open debate was him (all I rejected was a 'formal' debate on a topic of HIS choosing - and after he ran away):
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3220
Bourne and Sorensen are too cowardly to allow comments under their blogs.
For the record, some of the comments I have photographed are libellous and offensive. And nearly all of them are complete lies as well.
Liars for Jesus. Who are clearly motivated by hate. (The YECs copied into this message I mean.)
If you are going to post lying blog claims, don't whine when you are called out for it! And if you ban all comments, you should expect emails or comments on the BCSE community forum instead (from which you are not banned).
And if any of you don't want to be copied in on any further emails exposing unChristian YEC behaviour, why not try asking me to remove you from the list? As I did with Joe Boudreault (apart from the one about HIM).
But it appears you prefer libel and hate on your facebook pages instead."

[a_haworthroberts]

Bourne is a particularly nasty and semi-paranoid individual (he is not open to reason and I cannot post on his page; one of the people he is attacking is Barry Desborough):
https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
"Atheist time wasting trolls caught lying for evolution on this page.
2 atheists trolls showed up yesterday posting under the chimp and human DNA post. They tried to use a ERV argument. When I posted information against their claims one of the atheists tried to pass off that the page he linked to here: http://erv-faq-for-creationists.wikispa ... eationists
Had the correct information on ERVs and anything I posted, even referenced, was still wrong. So I went back to look around. Then I noticed there is zero information about the author and zero references to back up the supposed data on the pages linked to.
Side note: One of the atheists implied he wrote the page. Which by the way is a red flag. Not because he wrote it, but refused to put that he was the author of it on the page. What would he be afraid of unless it's being linked to a lie?
Without author information and references to the data the page becomes mere words and not scientific. I post this as an example of how desperate atheists have become that they will use such deceptions to make a point. But this is not the first time I have run into this.
Once I accused the 2 atheist trolls of using unverifiable information from a page they probably threw up themselves, they quit posting. Not surprising though. Only lies need more lies and deception. Lying for the truth is a oxymoron.
Atheists that think we are gullible think they can use that to their advantage to do what these 2 did. So always make sure that:
1) Their information is credible from credible sources. Wiki pages are not done by experts and often have errors.
2) That there is information on the author of the page. Bogus pages full of known lies are not going to have author information.
3) References to the data supplied.
4) Information in a Wiki does not = fact.
~ Issac"

[Barry Desborough]

Here is some background, and my response to Issac's accusations of plagiarism -
---------------------------------------------------------------
In his page, "Evolution is a lie" https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie I presented the owner with my FAQ on endogenous retroviruses.

http://erv-faq-for-creationists.wikispa ... eationists

Rather than discuss the evidence, "Mr. Potato Head", as I call him for reasons that will become clear, thrashed about making excuses. The latest of his twists and turns is to mount a campaign accusing me of plagiarism. He has splattered his page with at least ten comments trying to smear me with the accusation, but offering no evidence to support it.

Here is an example, https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALi ... =1&theater

Here was my reply on each occasion, reproduced here, in case the originals get deleted.

"Re. accusing me of plagiarism, this is utterly pathetic, Mr. Potato Head. You cannot refute the evidence, so you scratch around for feeble excuses to ignore it, or to try and silence me. I take this as an implicit admission that you have no answers to the evidence, and I think I am entitled to claim victory in this discussion.

Go to the wiki home page. Tell me whose is the email at the bottom of the page. Send me an email asking me for proof of identity, and I will happily oblige.

A tip for catching plagiarism - take a distinctive phrase from a passage that you suspect. Put it in quotes and google. Goole will search for that verbatim phrase. Those of us who fight for truth and reason often do this with creationist quote-mines to find the original source and to expose the quote-mining creationist as the miserable little liar that he is. You are welcome to try the technique on the contents of my wiki, and tell me if you get any hits that are attributed to others. All you will find are quotes from Abbie Smith on one particular page, that I attribute to Abbie.

If you find anything, let me know. If you don't, I expect an apology. Once I receive either, we can continue, but not before."

I have stopped talking to him until my conditions are met, but that doesn't prevent you from chipping in your comments here and on his page, dear readers.

[Roger Stanyard]

Rather than discuss the evidence, "Mr. Potato Head", as I call him for reasons that will become clear, thrashed about making excuses. The latest of his twists and turns is to mount a campaign accusing me of plagiarism. He has splattered his page with at least ten comments trying to smear me with the accusation, but offering no evidence to support it.

.

Hu Barry and long time no hear.

"Potato Head" does appear to me one of the more monumental dunderheads of the creation movement.

[a_haworthroberts]

The hypocritical fraud Bourne appears to have deleted the WHOLE of the discussion that I highlighted yesterday (I then sent Barry a facebook message mentioning my post).

[a_haworthroberts]

https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
The fool Issac Bourne needs to take a look at this and stop his 'World Wide Flood' related boasting (as does Andrew Snelling of Answers in Genesis who recently made wild claims about the same story):
http://creation.com/oceans-of-water-dee ... -the-earth

[a_haworthroberts]

https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
"Seems our page has made a notorious militant atheist Christian hater mad. His favorite word, when referring to anyone whom dares to disagree with him, is liar. Funny though how he uses the word so often yet never proves what exactly we are lying about.
He even has a new word that he's added to liar. He loves to call us "serial liars". Normally I don't post his stuff because this encourages him to spew more hatred. Because that's what he loves to do is hate anyone with the free speech to disagree with him. But I thought this would be a good example because this happens to be one of his less hate filled e-mails so you can imagine what a normal hate filled e-mail is like.
He must be having an off day to even be halfway nice. But I am sure after reading this he won't be able to resist giving me an earful lol. Probably claim I'm lying here also but lying about what exactly? I'm letting the e-mail speak for itself. ~ Issac
Side note: What militant atheists love to do when their tactics make them look stupid as revealed by a Christian. In other words this is what we expect him to do about this post.
1) Send atheist militant trolls to this page to troll it.
2) Show up himself under a fake account to troll the page.
3) Send us all creationists hateful e-mails about where we exposed him here and told lies even though I'm letting the e-mail speak for itself.
4) Complain to FB to have this post removed because Ashley can dish it but can never take it.
I'll keep you guys up to date on which one he decides to do".

Would you like some more proof of your online lying, Issac? By the way, I have NEVER EVER used a fake account and I have NEVER EVER complained to Facebook about a lying YEC anti-scientific bigot such as yourself. And I am NOT an 'atheist Christian hater.' What I detest is blatant fanatical young Earth creationist Lying. Thus I expose it. For the pseudo-science and propaganda that it is.

You by contrast have refused to answer questions from myself and banned me from commenting on either your facebook page or your blog posts.

The email I sent recently (to you and to the pro-science Bible.And.Science.Forum), and which you show as a screenshot below your speech above, highlights how you lied recently on facebook.

That email read as follows:
"Amazing how YEC fundies twist what they read.
https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
"The BBC reveals their agenda which parallels the agenda of militant atheists. Get rid of anyone who dares to believe there is a God (disappear all faiths and religion). Why? So atheism can have total control and the only say in everything. Freethinkers? I think not. ~ Issac"
US bigot Issac Bourne at 'Evolution is a Lie' is referring to this article (though of course he ignores the final para):
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2014121 ... -disappear
For good measure he's also spreading lies about the fossil 'Lucy', either deliberately or because of the kind of shoddy research that does not prevent him from then pontificating misleadingly on facebook."

If you read the BBC article and then read Bourne's claims you will see that he totally distorts the article. Thus I am correct to state that he was 'twisting' the article (for propaganda purposes). My accusations against Bourne are not made-up or false.

And here's MORE fiction from Bourne yesterday:
"Regardless of what happened, he would claim he beat you and every word out of your mouth was a lie."

And yet MORE:
"Calling everyone liar is his cop out for not having rebuttals."
Apart from the rebuttal above?

These 'fundie' bigots have no self-awareness and are causing immense damage to Christianity.


PS I received a reply from the Bible.And.Science.Forum as follows:
"Isaac [sic] is another psyche case. I'm glad he doesn't live on my block."


PPS Bourne is showing off his intellect this evening/afternoon. He is claiming on his page (though no details or link is supplied):
"Well some trolls showed up. At least 2 were using fake accounts. I accused one of being Ashley himself which he never denied. ~ Issac". Now I SEE. Somebody used a fake account. Bourne falsely accused them of being me. The person apparently never denied it. Thus he has decided that it was me and I "use fake accounts". Even if I do NOT.
God help anybody in a criminal court case who is innocent but where Bourne is a member of the jury!
If Bourne has the details (and is not lying) let him SUPPLY them. (Or Shut Up.) Facebook would be able to confirm to him that the posts in question were ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. (Even if Bigot Bourne thinks he has a scripture verse which declares that I must be a 'liar' - because I disagree with him and demonstrate how he is wrong.)


Addendum at 23.56 GMT. Liar Bourne has just spouted:
"Yep the trolls are definitely here/ Knew Ashley would do that. he known for it. Can't take real reality of what he does and how it makes him look like a fool so he does what every troll does. I guess not I go look at me main to see if he sent me any hate mail also. He;s so predictable, ~ Issac".
I cannot help his paranoia if he has decided, contrary to the facts, that I am currently 'trolling' somewhere on his hate site (something for which he has provided no evidence - but that issue has never bothered him).

[a_haworthroberts]

This is contemptible:
https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie

(also
http://www.yecheadquarters.org/?p=1754
where YEC Issac Bourne makes a number of false statements about me thus demonstrating his REAL motivation and insincerity in pulling what is clearly a clumsy stunt: "This is a FaceBook post where I challenged the atheist troll Ashley Hayworth Roberts to a formal debate. Ashley is basically a verbal bully that likes to call everyone a liar that dares to disagree with him. He’s more huff and puff then likes to run and hide. But I thought someone needed to stand up to this bully so that is what I will do. If he accepts debate challenge, I will announce it here. If not I will announce his refusal here as well.")

"A formal debate challenge to Ashley Hayworth Roberts by Issac Bourne.
Before I set up the certain rules I will debate by a little background, I have debated atheists for over 20 years on forums and blogs and now FB pages. I have debated more than 10 at a time. I have heard that Ashley likes to huff and puff then run and hide. So I make it easy for him. He can get up to 9 other atheists to help him debate. That will be a total of 10 atheists against one creationist.
That should make it fair where you don't have to run and hide. I will debate here or on your forum. Makes no difference to me. Or I have the ability to set up a forum just for this debate if you like which might be better.Take a couple of hours to do but can be done.
Rules are:
1) No ridicule, name calling, demonetization.
2) All questions and evidence must be addressed by both sides. "Even I don't know is acceptable". So no dodging questions. And nobody can know everything. It is okay to state opinions but implying they are more than that is not allowed.
3) No cussing.
4) Each side, at the longest, has 24 hours to respond. Failure to do so is to forfeit. Unless there are unforeseeable circumstances.
5) It is understood by both sides there are really no winners. the readers decide for themselves who won.
6) After one subject is pretty much debated out we can move on to another. We can do different threads aka posts for each one to make if easier for the readers and search engines.
7) How it is determined a subject is debated out is that when all there is left to do is posture back and forth which really proves nothing.
Rules are simple and keeps the debate scientific instead of a one up game.The other atheists can respond also but they cannot break the rules. Each side gets 3 do overs. Which means if the rules are broken they get to edit their post to make it fit within the rules.
Memes will be allowed as long as they make a point relevant to the subject that does not include ridicule. Because some times a point is better made along with a picture. If you accept we can move on to the next steps Deciding where to hold the debate and what subject to debate on.
For those who do not know Ashley and what he's all about. Here is a sample: [the preceding post above]
This is what Ashley does if you happen to butt heads with him. Everyone else is a liar and a coward that dares to disagree. So I give him a chance to prove this with 9 of his buds to help him. He's going to need it.
I will also be contacting several of my creationist contacts to spread the word of this debate so there will probably be thousands showing up when this goes viral. Now before anyone jumps the gun here, Ashley has to accept first before the next steps can be taken to set everything up. So what say you Ashley? You game? You need more help? ~ Issac".

A formal debate with a bigot like Bourne? I'm not that gullible. He has frequently CENSORED attempted posts of mine under his blogs instead of dealing with the issues raised. And it was HIM who made bogus allegations and then RAN AWAY from a book review discussion at Amazon.com. Details of Bourne's evasiveness (and poor understanding of scientific topics he raises) can be read in the preceding posts in this thread.

If Bourne wants a debate about science, let him put his money where his mouth is and come onto this community forum! Where informal debate can take place with visiting YECs whenever they choose.

But I don't think he does and he is just pulling a 'stunt'. It is clear eg from this further comment* that 'Evolution is a Lie'/Issac Bourne is not challenging me in good faith. He just wants to claim that I am not only a 'bully' (because I point out to him and others false statements he makes on his facebook or blogs eg his recent nonsense about a BBC online article) but also a 'coward' because am saying a firm 'no' to his scheme as outlined above (just as I did to YEC Jason Petersen when he pulled the same stunt).

By the way Bourne, YEC propagandist Bob Sorensen refuses both formal AND informal debates with critics (he bans them too). Is he a 'coward'?

Why waste time 'formally' debating someone who writes this kind of drivel (which I addressed on this community forum when I first saw it)?
http://www.yecheadquarters.org/?p=1683

I cannot currently recall which Amazon.com review (probably of 'The Greatest Hoax on Earth?' by Sarfati) Bourne came onto (probably as 'ikester7579') - and then ran away from. I suspect I reported his behaviour here at the time. But if anyone wants to read more about my previous interactions with Bourne (prior to me starting a 'dedicated' thread) they can go to the main 'Conversations with Creationists' page and then do a search for posts - not all of them by myself - containing the word 'Bourne'; there are many.


*
"We should know whether Ashley will accept challenge or be the coward he is by tomorrow. I know he is keeping up with the posts here since I put up the other post exposing his hateful e-mails.
Some might think the things he says bother me. Not really. I just think someone needs to stand up to this verbal bully. And I will enjoy every minute of it.
This is an example of the one thing every creationist needs to learn stepping into the field of defending God's creation. Militant troll hate like this is par for the course. You have to learn to accept that. And don;t waste your time trying to fight everyone whom says anything bad about you. You will spend to much defending your honor against people who could care less. And you will not have time to run the creation ministries God blesses you with.
You have to look at such things as free advertisement. Every time your name or site gets mentioned on their websites, your search engine rankings go up placing you in better positions for searches. You pick how many debates you will get in over a certain time period to leave yourself time to do other things. I have not been in a formal debate in a while and this person got on my radar so he's next.
If he accepts and after the debate is over. He will talk about me from now on. He will say hateful stuff probably worse than what he says now. That's his right. Just lie it's mine to say what I want here which irks him to no end. But that's his problem. Tonight I'm going to embed this post on my web site so everyone there will know. ~ Issac"

PS Why has Bourne posted a young photo of Roger Stanyard under his post (he's also misspelt my surname though that is easily done)?

PPS There is a RationalWiki page about Mr Bourne:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Issac_Bourne

Addendum at 23.58 pm:
Idiot Bourne is still wittering about wanting to debate 10 people on this community forum single-handed. Believe that and you will believe anything! The other people who post here are mostly too busy to waste their time with Bourne on 'formal' debates. If he wants to say something, let him come here informally and say his piece! But I have already said a very clear 'NO' to his 'challenge'. But it would seem that my prompt answer to Bourne has yet to penetrate his brain ... My impression that the man is clueless (or wilfully ignorant and in denial) has been further strengthened. NO I DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT YOUR INSINCERE AND UNREALISTIC INVITATION, ISSAC! HAVE YOU GOT THAT YET (EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU CAN BOAST ON US RADIO - I DON'T GIVE TWO HOOTS EITHER WAY)?

Wide-circulation email, with Sorensen and Bourne included, just sent - linking to both threads (on Sorensen and on Bourne).

Update just after 2.15 am on 31 Dec GMT:
https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
Bourne and his sidekicks Schultz and Marlow have finally seen my response above. Their reactions simply prove that these people have NO facts and NO rebuttals - JUST hate.
So who will 'run away' by not posting any more on this forum? Not me. But will Issac pluck the courage to come on here as he is now saying that he will do (gosh I'm scared)? Or will he run away instead?
Time will tell.
He will of course need to follow, as others have to do, the rules and make sure that he is on-topic for the various sections of the forum. IF he arrives.
The latest posts on the Bourne page are further confirmation that debating such people in any formal manner would be extremely unwise. The ones I have had contact with are totally dishonest extremists who I am convinced based on my past experiences of their dishonest censorship, evasiveness and false accusations etc CANNOT be trusted.

Here is YET another example of YEC apparent censorship (email as just sent to the Christian but anti-YEC bible.and.science.forum):
"This person, a blogger whose name is David Tee I gather:
http://scotteriology.wordpress.com/2012 ... david-tee/
has now failed to moderate SIX posts of mine dated 30 Dec here:
http://theologyarchaeology.wordpress.co ... mment-1793
Some of the posts can be read here (he criticised McGrath too):
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringo ... serve.html".
(The first link was supplied to me by Christian blogger Jon Baker of Age of Rocks, who Tee also clumsily criticises. Tee apparently thinks the Barringer crater was caused by floodwaters - yeah, right.)

[IssacBourne]

I'm here, you round up your 10 buds to debate me? Since I gave you the debating advantage of 10 and then you whined about not having the home field advantage and I gave you that as well. So now I am here. How about I take one advantage. How about I bring Jason Petersen and Bob Sorensen to debate against you and your 9 buds here? Maybe you need to have another 10 added for that?

And what was the deal with blocking my name at this forum so I had to remove the space between my first and last name to even register? Then I found that you block Jason and Bob names also. Took screen shots of the blocks. http://www.yecheadquarters.org/

[a_haworthroberts]

Issac - you have more guts than Bob Sorensen coming on here (and as yourself since some think Sorensen came on here briefly using a different name ie Mister Gordons if I recall correctly).

I very much doubt that anybody else who posts here wants to be part of any formal 'debating team' due to other commitments (and I do not propose to send private messages to them on New Year's Eve of all days). They can of course speak for themselves - but I have already explained my position and I think you should acknowledge what I have written instead of acting as though I had not made a clear and prompt response to your suggestion on your facebook page. (I am also sceptical that Sorensen would take part in any 'debate' here. And Petersen does not like discussing science or science education - he seems to prefer metaphysics/philosophy/apologetics and the like.)

If you want to discuss science or science education - go ahead.

I would also be interested to know which post(s) contained 'whining' by myself regarding yourself.

I do not propose to return to this board until 2015!

By the way, this community forum is moderated (not very strictly in my experience) but not by myself.

I cannot comment on your last para. "I know nothing" to coin a phrase about the problem you mention.

PS The claim on your YEC Headquarters link - just seen - that this is an 'atheist forum' is FALSE.

[IssacBourne]

First of all, I want to clear the air. For what reason do you hate me?

1) Have you ever met me?
2) Did I do something to you?
3) Was I the first person to call you a name or make accusations about you I cannot back up?
4) And why is everyone a liar and you are the only truth teller?
5) Have you ever been wrong about anything?

I'd like to know what drives so much hatred for me? Because I don't get it.