A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Current News and Links of interest

Moderator: News Editors

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:29 pm

a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 8882
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby jon_12091 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:28 pm

I find the comment about about 'only 700 Christians in Scotland' very telling, more so perhaps than the creationism.
'If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists'
Miners against fascism.
Hywel Francis
User avatar
jon_12091
 
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:47 am

Two head teachers of primary school infiltrated by hard-line religious sect are axed from their posts

THE two head teachers of a primary school infiltrated by a hard-line religious sect were removed from their posts yesterday.

Sandra MacKenzie and Liz Mockus were “redeployed to other duties” after a parents’ outcry over the presence of the extremist Church of Christ at Kirktonholme Primary in East Kilbride.

The sect had already been barred from the school after the Daily Record told how they handed hundreds of books to children which denied evolution and com-pared atheism to abortion.

American “missionaries” from the Church of Christ, who see Scotland as fertile ground for converts, also worked closely with pupils as volunteers.

MacKenzie and Mockus shared the head’s duties at Kirktonholme. They have been replaced by a temporary management team.

Parents were given the news in a letter from South Lanarkshire Council’s education director, Jim Gilhooly.

It followed an emergency meeting on Tuesday where mums and dads vented their fury about the church being given access to their kids.

One parent who was there said: “There were a lot of angry parents, but no one wanted to come out and say they wanted the head teachers out to their faces.

“There is a view that they have done a decent job at Kirktonholme. But this lapse in judgment is catastrophic and hard to forgive.

“It would have been very difficult for them to carry on as normal after the books were handed out. A line was crossed in terms of trust.”[url][/url]http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/two-head-teachers-primary-school-2270463?
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby jon_12091 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:30 am

I'd be very interested to know just why those head teachers let a clearly conversion-orientated mission group run riot in their school and did other religious groups get the same kind of access?

As yet no other churches or demoniations have leapt to the defence of the Church of Christ!

[edit]The furour has finally made it on to Radio Scotland
'If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists'
Miners against fascism.
Hywel Francis
User avatar
jon_12091
 
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:16 pm

Some more information from north of the border following the recent primary school controversy; the article also refers to YEC surgeon Dr Nagy Iskander: http://leavingfundamentalism.wordpress. ... #more-1669
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 8882
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:28 pm

http://leavingfundamentalism.wordpress. ... mment-6142
Some of the comments are quite interesting, though I'm too modest to suggest which ones I might have in mind.:)
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 8882
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:54 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:http://leavingfundamentalism.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/parents-against-creationism-two-big-victories-in-one-scottish-town/#comment-6142
It could be that we have a former forum member preaching there.
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby cathy » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:44 pm

Ah this comment from Anthony Bennett that you responded to is interesting
One day, each one of us will have to appear before the Lord Jesus Christ, our Creator, on the Day of Judgment. Some of those who do so will need to give an account of why they did not believe He was God, why they denied He came down from heaven to provide a means of forgiveness from original sin, why they deny His crucifixion and resurrection, why they promote the theory of evolution (which is impossible biologically and is contradicted by the fossil record), and why they oppose so bitterly the activities of those who try to share with others the Good News about Him.


because whilst treating myself in Cafe Nero this morning I read an interview with Brian Cox in todays Times (I only read it in coffee shops, I am loathe to put even a paltry £1 into the pocket of evil Murdoch and his evil empire).

Now this being the Times I can't re access it online, but toward the end we get to something the gist of which was - Brian Cox can discuss in programmes like the wonder of life how life could have arisen from chemical goo and get applause yet Dawkins has an image problem akin to Darth Vader. Brian then points out that arguing with religion is an argument that doesn't need to be had. That is irrelevant to the science.

In fact he recounts how he was once giving a talk to kids and the first question was can you be a scientist and still believe in God to which he replied yes. He says he was going to say more, yes was just the start, but was stopped by the round of applause he got. He said all they seem to need was permission to be allowed to continue their internal beliefs. Now don't forget Brian Cox is an atheist and Brian Cox thinks creationism is moronic and should always be argued about.

Now I would NEVER have needed to ask that question ever! Nor I guess would Peter, Michael or Jon. But today I guess I would! And the reason I wouldn't have had to ask it has nothing to do with Richard Dawkins and everything to do with creationism and the likes of Anthony Bennett. They are the ones who have created that false dilemma by replacing belief with inanity, stupidity, moronic nonsense that is creationism.

And of course now they've handed the means to the destruction of religion to the like of Richard Dawkins who has elaborated and expanded on the false dilemma and more than used it to further his agenda. And at the end of the day both sides lose. If my children were still very little, I would not send them to the faith primary school they attended nor take them to church, nor let them attend the youth clubs run by churches that they did attend. And I wouldn't because I'd want them to grow up understanding science not being scared of it. I'd fear the influence of the religious, despite having once been one of their number and despite the fact I know many who aren't. Creationism is becoming to ubiquitous in religion and has rendered it creepy. I would say I tried to bring them up to be tolerant and make their own informed choices, but my suspicion of religion now has removed that element of getting information.

Likewise I think many 'religious' parents may now avoid science clubs, doing well at science gcses, science programmes. For the same reason, fear of them losing their faith.

So creationism has done nothing good. When are idiots like Anthony Bennett, David Tyler, Paul Garner and sobbing Sylv ever going to understand that very, very, very simple fact.
cathy
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:51 pm
Location: Redditch

Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:06 pm

Whilst it is unclear whether he is the one who commented under the Scaramanga blog as he has so far ignored my response, I googled Anthony Bennett and found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Be ... politician (faulty link; please click twice)
A bit of a busy-body but no specific mention of creationism as far as I could see.

I also came across this relating to a bloke with a somewhat similar name (and probably right wing and science-unfriendly views too):
http://skeptical-voter.org/wiki/index.p ... tt-Spencer
Have the BCSE heard of Alan (or possibly Anthony!) Bennett-Spencer?

See also: http://skeptical-voter.org/
It appears they attempt to find out where parliamentary candidates in General Elections stand on scientific issues.
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 8882
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:16 pm

cathy wrote:because whilst treating myself in Cafe Nero this morning I read an interview with Brian Cox in todays Times (I only read it in coffee shops, I am loathe to put even a paltry £1 into the pocket of evil Murdoch and his evil empire).
If anyone feels the need to read an article in the Times, they may be able to get round the paywall via their local library. Ours subscribes to an online library of current papers and some journals and I just have to type in my library membership number and bingo! I can't remember off-hand how to do it, I use it so rarely, but if anyone can't find out locally PM me and I'll dig out the details. Oh, and it gets you the OED too - must be worth an guinea an ounce!
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

MORE NEWS FROM SCOTLAND

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24371575

I'm amazed that Scotland is behind the times and the Scottish government has not so far issued similar guidance to that which exists in England and in Wales on only considering creationism within religious and moral education classes.

"A Scottish government spokesperson said: "It is for a head teacher to decide, in full consultation with the local authority and wishes of parents, what links a school should have with its local faith communities."" A response which IGNORES the real issue - what is taught in the classroom in state schools in Scotland.
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 8882
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

THEY'VE DONE IT AGAIN!

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:08 pm

When I saw this on the NSS Media Round-up I thought it was just going to be a re-hash. But no. Incredibly, Kirktonholme Primary School has brought in ANOTHER creationist chaplain - this time one of arch(or should that be Ark?)-creationist Nagy Iskander's associates. With the previously-offending head teachers gone, who in the woodwork was in a position to install another creationist?
Unholy row as parents at primary school infiltrated by hard-line religious sect discover new chaplain has the same beliefs

...But it has now emerged their new chaplain, Lenny Prentice, is from a church with the same beliefs.

And Prentice admitted yesterday he does not believe in evolution across species, despite that being accepted scientific teaching.

He said: “I don’t believe that man originated from monkeys or sheep came from fish.”

Two head teachers were removed from their posts at Kirktonholme after an outcry from parents.

Now they have been further enraged to discover that Prentice has been taken on.

He is an elder at the same church – Westwoodhill Evangelical – as Dr Nagy Iskander, widely described as one of Europe’s top creationists.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/unholy-row-parents-primary-school-2340569?
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby Paul Braterman » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:30 pm

The Church web site now only supplies time and place; it no longer even identifies it as "Evangelical". However, its statement of biblical infallibist beliefs are archived at http://web.archive.org/web/20120216224751/http://www.westwoodhillchurch.org.uk/ with the statement of faith at http://web.archive.org/web/20120218032348/http://www.westwoodhillchurch.org.uk/aboutus/what-we-believe/
Paul Braterman
Paul Braterman
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:03 pm
Location: Glasgow

Re: A creationist cult at work in Scotland?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:03 am

According to Prentice, quoted in the new press article:
“There is as much evidence for evolution as there is for creation. There is no conclusive proof one way or the other. People need to get off their high horses about this issue.” Nonsense - there's acres more scientific evidence for evolution than for instant creation. Though I suppose it depends of how exactly Prentice chooses to define evidence'.

And the Scottish government washes its hands of the issue - too busy campaigning for independence maybe?
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 8882
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Previous

Return to News and Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron