North Korea and Nazi Germany

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North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:25 pm

Neither of them is or was an atheist state. Although the DPRK is probably as much like the Soviet Union under Stalin as like Nazi Germany, it is probably more a bizarre communist theocracy than an atheist state.
Fortunately young Earth creationist ideologues are not proclaiming that atheism leads to the industrial-scale state torture, brainwashing, endless lying, sadism, total paranoia and enforced deliberate inhumanity that is sadly seen on part of the Korean Peninsula TODAY:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?N ... wKJ3vl_v80
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... theocracy/
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/religi ... nition.htm
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomch ... -catholic/
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Re: North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby cathy » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:26 am

Fortunately young Earth creationist ideologues are not proclaiming that atheism leads to the industrial-scale state torture, brainwashing, endless lying, sadism, total paranoia and enforced deliberate inhumanity that is sadly seen on part of the Korean Peninsula TODAY:

I expect they will be by tomorrow tho Ashley. Loads of stuff coming from Amnesty International about North Korea that is heartbraking to read. I suspect it won't be long before CMI are on the case. After all they have accused atheist evolution of being responsible for Nazi Germany, Rwanda, London riots etc etc etc..... I'm sure Korea will follow. As for atheist state? Stalin's Russia was one, it is ideology, extremism and ego that make evil, what it is attached to (atheism, religion, politics) is a secondary excuse.

The only civilised states are secular ones where everyone is free to believe whatever they want as long as it is a private, non state funded belief. Nothing works if it is run by ideologues and egos! I can't imagine an hard line atheist state (whether run by someone claiming a divine right whatever it comes from or not), would be any better than a theocratic one in the long run. Secular means without religion not against it. Atheism used just mean no belief till hijacked by extremists from both sides - not unlike creationism.

Extremists don't run countries or governments or anything else particularly well - they tend to be lunatics for starters. Rights of individuals also come with the recognition that others have rights as well. My rights end where yours begin and all that. Hence the right of the child to a proper education trumps the right of creationists to mess that up with lies. The right of a child to freedom to play or from pain trumps the rights of parents to genitally mutilate or force the burkha onto them and so on....

Wait - I'm sure the creationists will get to North Korea and blame evolution somehow. They just love a good human rights tragedy to fuel their ire and add some new lies to the pot.
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Re: North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:19 am

cathy wrote:
Fortunately young Earth creationist ideologues are not proclaiming that atheism leads to the industrial-scale state torture, brainwashing, endless lying, sadism, total paranoia and enforced deliberate inhumanity that is sadly seen on part of the Korean Peninsula TODAY:

I expect they will be by tomorrow tho Ashley. Loads of stuff coming from Amnesty International about North Korea that is heartbraking to read. I suspect it won't be long before CMI are on the case. After all they have accused atheist evolution of being responsible for Nazi Germany, Rwanda, London riots etc etc etc..... I'm sure Korea will follow. As for atheist state? Stalin's Russia was one, it is ideology, extremism and ego that make evil, what it is attached to (atheism, religion, politics) is a secondary excuse.

The only civilised states are secular ones where everyone is free to believe whatever they want as long as it is a private, non state funded belief. Nothing works if it is run by ideologues and egos! I can't imagine an hard line atheist state (whether run by someone claiming a divine right whatever it comes from or not), would be any better than a theocratic one in the long run. Secular means without religion not against it. Atheism used just mean no belief till hijacked by extremists from both sides - not unlike creationism.

Extremists don't run countries or governments or anything else particularly well - they tend to be lunatics for starters. Rights of individuals also come with the recognition that others have rights as well. My rights end where yours begin and all that. Hence the right of the child to a proper education trumps the right of creationists to mess that up with lies. The right of a child to freedom to play or from pain trumps the rights of parents to genitally mutilate or force the burkha onto them and so on....

Wait - I'm sure the creationists will get to North Korea and blame evolution somehow. They just love a good human rights tragedy to fuel their ire and add some new lies to the pot.


The US religious fundamentalists are deep into re-writing our very understanding of history and politics to push their political agenda. Amongst the monsters there is the bogus historian David Barton. They are gettig more and more extreme.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Re: North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:55 pm

The Scandinavian countries are fairly secular and liberal I think (according to Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall). They appear peaceful and tolerant (though of course Sweden has had the odd prime ministerial assassination or riot, and Norway has had mass murder by one right wing fanatic).

Russia is not liberal and Putin attends church fairly regularly.

Glancing online, apparently Ukraine is quite secular and atheistic.

Much of which suggests that generalisations are a risky game...

I hope that CMI and the like will THINK TWICE before discussing North Korea as a means of denigrating people who accept evolution or who are not fundamentalist Christians (they COULD suggest truthfully that SOME Christians in South Korea and elsewhere are trying to help North Koreans - eg as shown in the recent Panorama film).

The government of the North hates Christians (among others):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26252483
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Putin and Hitler (and a leading creationist Christian)

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:44 am

https://www.facebook.com/aigkenham/post ... 8440349504
"Putin is actually seeing what is described in Romans 1 happening before our eyes in the USA (and the West in general) and being exhibited before the world. We are in a massive spiritual battle--I pray the church wakes up.
“Many Euro-Atlantic countries have moved away from their roots, including Christian values,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a recent keynote speech. “Policies are being pursued that place on the same level a multi-child family and a same-sex partnership, a faith in God and a belief in Satan. This is the path to degradation.”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z2rsolh0oo"

One of Ham's recent weapons against Christians who don't agree with him - drawing attention to remarks by the repressive thug, liar and bully named Vladimir Putin. Who wants to take over MORE than simply Crimea - merely because he thinks he CAN.

My only comment on Ham's words is that when Ham wrote this on 30 January he did not utter a single negative word about Putin.

Who we already knew has nothing but CONTEMPT for American politicians especially Obama and virtually all European politicians (as well as Muslims, liberals and homosexuals). But LIKES child killers and torturers like Bashar al Assad and Robert Mugabe. He gave the former weapons last year. He blocked sanctions against the latter in 2008.

Meanwhile the genocidal leader of North Korea is firing missiles - but nobody is paying attention to him. Putin has seen to that.

Should Ham express regret at or clarify his apparent recent endorsement of Putin's views on Christianity and America I will of course mention that here.
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Re: Putin and Hitler (and a leading creationist Christian)

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:52 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:https://www.facebook.com/aigkenham/posts/564078440349504
"Putin is actually seeing what is described in Romans 1 happening before our eyes in the USA (and the West in general) and being exhibited before the world. We are in a massive spiritual battle--I pray the church wakes up.
“Many Euro-Atlantic countries have moved away from their roots, including Christian values,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a recent keynote speech. “Policies are being pursued that place on the same level a multi-child family and a same-sex partnership, a faith in God and a belief in Satan. This is the path to degradation.”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z2rsolh0oo"

One of Ham's recent weapons against Christians who don't agree with him - drawing attention to remarks by the repressive thug, liar and bully named Vladimir Putin. Who wants to take over MORE than simply Crimea - merely because he thinks he CAN.

My only comment on Ham's words is that when Ham wrote this on 30 January he did not utter a single negative word about Putin.

Who we already knew has nothing but CONTEMPT for American politicians especially Obama and virtually all European politicians (as well as Muslims, liberals and homosexuals). But LIKES child killers and torturers like Bashar al Assad and Robert Mugabe. He gave the former weapons last year. He blocked sanctions against the latter in 2008.

Meanwhile the genocidal leader of North Korea is firing missiles - but nobody is paying attention to him. Putin has seen to that.

Should Ham express regret at or clarify his apparent recent endorsement of Putin's views on Christianity and America I will of course mention that here.


The fundamentalists are up to their necks in trying to influence Russian laws against gay people and have been very successful in doing so. They have access right to the top of the Kremlin. Most of their anti-gay crapola revolves around "family values" groups.

Some years ago we found out that the US fundamentalists were systematically attempting to change the law in foreign countries as a stick to beat US legislators.

I strongly suspect that some at the top of the fundamentalist anti-gay movement are closet gays themselves. Libel laws prevent me from naming them but I would point out that anti-gay pastor Ted Haggard (a YECer) was outed as being gay some years back.

Fortunately in the USA public opinion is turning against such anti-gay pastors and their churches and movements.
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Re: North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:51 am

I can't imagine that Putin was such a committed Christian when he was a KGB thug and the Orthodox Church was suppressed. Probably faking it.
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Re: Putin and Hitler (and a leading creationist Christian)

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:33 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:“Many Euro-Atlantic countries have moved away from their roots, including Christian values,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a recent keynote speech. “Policies are being pursued that place on the same level a multi-child family and a same-sex partnership, a faith in God and a belief in Satan. This is the path to degradation.”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z2rsolh0oo"


Ah, yes, the Washington Times. It is a loss-making newspaper (propaganda sheet) owned by the Moonies, a cult hardly in a position to lecture to the world on "family values" given the Rev Moon's track record.
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Re: North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:41 am

Brian Jordan wrote:I can't imagine that Putin was such a committed Christian when he was a KGB thug and the Orthodox Church was suppressed. Probably faking it.


Strange isn't it that so many US-based fundamentalists now think that the ex-KGB and ex-communist autocrat is wonderful. It's no different from elements of the hard left in the past thinkng the USSR was wonderful. For the same reason - they are ideologues. Birds of a feather screeching to the same tune. The ideology is, of course, never wrong, only people who let it down.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:50 pm

Based on things he is reported to have said (for what the words of Putin are worth - which is generally very little) my guess is that he is a theist and a conservative who thinks the Christian god is real and who also wishes to stand up for traditional Christian values partly for political advantage but partly because he does not like liberalism or trends towards 'equality'. Whether he is 'saved' is another question, and I have my suspicions, and what he thinks of evolution vs creation I haven't a clue (I haven't tried to find out).

http://content.time.com/time/specials/2 ... -3,00.html
"TIME: Do you believe in a Supreme God?
PUTIN: Do you? ... There are things I believe, which should not in my position, at least, be shared with the public at large for everybody's consumption because that would look like self-advertising or a political striptease."

I noticed that the recent Washington Times article stated that Patriarch Kirill I of Moscow, the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, has honoured Leonid Simonovitch - the "openly anti-Semitic monarchist" leader of the Union of Orthodox Banner Bearers (an ultraconservative movement whose slogan is “Orthodoxy or Death” and whose members wear black paramilitary uniforms festooned with skulls) - for services to the Orthodox Church.
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Re: North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:34 am

I can't find anything to say that Putin is a creationist. They haven't come up with anything on Talk Origins either.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.origins/YXk8srDVEGM
Of course, whatever appearance he puts on could be a sham anyway.
Not that they haven't got creationists in Russia: there's at least one in their parliament calling for creationism to be taught in schools.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121008/176481986.html
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:04 pm

Apparently the Russian government hope that their soldiers won't shoot anyone in Crimea.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 70107.html

Nice of them.

On creationism, some people (like Melanie Phillips) stand up for creationists' rights (or doubt evolution as with Steve Fuller) without being actively Christian. But Putin appears to believe in the survival of the fittest (or most aggressive and deceitful) ...
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The murdering legacy of Putin/Putinism

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:47 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Based on things he is reported to have said (for what the words of Putin are worth - which is generally very little) my guess is that he is a theist and a conservative who thinks the Christian god is real and who also wishes to stand up for traditional Christian values partly for political advantage but partly because he does not like liberalism or trends towards 'equality'. Whether he is 'saved' is another question, and I have my suspicions, and what he thinks of evolution vs creation I haven't a clue (I haven't tried to find out).

http://content.time.com/time/specials/2 ... -3,00.html
"TIME: Do you believe in a Supreme God?
PUTIN: Do you? ... There are things I believe, which should not in my position, at least, be shared with the public at large for everybody's consumption because that would look like self-advertising or a political striptease."

I noticed that the recent Washington Times article stated that Patriarch Kirill I of Moscow, the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, has honoured Leonid Simonovitch - the "openly anti-Semitic monarchist" leader of the Union of Orthodox Banner Bearers (an ultraconservative movement whose slogan is “Orthodoxy or Death” and whose members wear black paramilitary uniforms festooned with skulls) - for services to the Orthodox Church.



The lying hypocrite Putin has been meeting this Patriarch Kirill today I gather.

So is he a Rank Hypocrite pretending to be a Christian? Or a real Christian but also a very bad man? Or is Putin being biblical? God help us if so. Or then again ...
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Is Putin a psychopath?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:41 am

Just in case you had forgotten or were unaware:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ng-3882514
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Re: North Korea and Nazi Germany

Postby cathy » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:54 pm

Ashley it'll be very interesting to see how Cameron reacts to the worlds revulsion and calls for sanctions. There is a hell of a lot of Russian money in London's banks and a couple of months ago when the rest of the world seemed to be calling for strong sanctions over their behaviour in the Ukraine didn't the British govt (with their unfailing commitment to rich bankers and of course posh London estate agents over human rights) decide to limit it to a few wishy washy visa restrictions rather than stronger freezing of assets? Or did I imagine that? Either way I have less faith in our govt doing the right thing despite the heartbreak of ten British families than I do the other countries involved.

So far all the evidence seems to point to Putins backing. The rebels are clearly too pathetic and stupid to operate complex missile systems without help. Even reading his weaselly body language when accusing Ukraine for defending their territory. All the conspiracy nutters are out in force as well. The whole thing has been absolutely heartbreaking to watch unfold. Right down to the pathetic little gun toting bastards not letting in investigators.

Putin could man up and condemn the separatists for their behaviour now in not allowing investigations but my money is on him not doing so.
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