Review of a YEC book

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Review of a YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:42 pm

http://bcseweb.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/t ... sm_26.html
Interesting.
I gather that the author passed away earlier this year.
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Re: Review of a YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:53 pm

There's also this review (by the same writer):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews ... ewpoints=1

And a couple of other reviews from across the pond:
http://www.amazon.com/Theistic-Evolutio ... ewpoints=1

I might get around to reading the book or part of it as it is available in full online as a pdf.
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Re: Review of a dire sounding YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:38 pm

http://bcseweb.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/t ... sm_27.html

More generally, I don't understand the YEC viewpoint on 'macro' evolution. Is it a sophisticated hoax? Or is there no evidence whatsoever supporting it? Both assertions cannot be correct.

More about the late John M Otis:
http://www.crpcalamance.org/jotis.html

His scientific qualifications? A Bachelor of Science degree from 1973.
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Re: Review of a dire sounding YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:43 pm

CORRECTION

He's NOT DEAD!

It seems the online obituary I found refers to a DIFFERENT John M Otis.

http://triumphantpublications.com/john.html
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Re: Review of a YEC book

Postby Michael » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:13 pm

Well, Otis seems to be brain-dead anyway
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Re: Review of a YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:22 am

A quote from chapter 3 of the aggressive Otis book:
"Sadly, modern man has granted science as a type of secularized deity and everything must bow to this fetish idol". Yes - anti-science.
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Re: Review of a YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:18 am

I've just speed-read Chapter 6 which is entitled 'The Scientific Failure of Evolution'. It looks very weak.
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Review of a hardline YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:25 pm

This is INTERESTING. At the start of Chapter 6 Otis writes:
"Men did live for centuries before Noah’s Flood. Noah’s Flood was a true fact, and it did encompass the entire world. Why are these true? It’s because the Bible says so! Hence, I presuppose these biblical statements as true, and I do not allow “science” to stand as some kind of independent authority over the Bible. In saying this,
presuppositional apologetics does not negate the value and the use of scientific evidences. It simply states that there is a proper use for evidences in the defense of the Faith." For anyone to call that position creation 'science' is highly dishonest.
He continues:
"The presuppositionalist does use scientific evidences in his defense of Christianity, but he uses it only as corroborative testimony, not foundational testimony. The difference between corroborative and foundational testimony is this: The evidentialist would say that the Bible is true because the scientific evidence demonstrates it to be, thereby making evidences as foundational to the veracity of the Bible. On the other hand, the presuppositionalist would say that because the Bible is true, the
scientific evidence points to the veracity of the Bible when it makes scientific statements, thereby scientific evidence is only corroborative. In other words, science rests upon the truth of the Bible, not vice versa. The facts of science are what they are because the Bible is true. Evidences must be interpreted, and the issue becomes: Which interpretation of the evidences is the most rational? Which interpretation best reflects the world as we see it? In this regard, creationists win hands down!!"
This is all very revealing.

The next time a YEC starts saying that anybody who disagrees with them is (like them) merely pushing a 'religion'/'rival faith'/'competing worldview'/'alternative unverifiable scientific account of Earth history' I will point out that YECs are dogmatic presuppositionalists and that I am an evidentialist (Otis of course tries to label evolutionists as also being presuppositionalists).

Presuppositionalism is dogma - deciding beforehand that biblical revelation is 'infallible history' and 'infallible science'. But posing as true 'science', as a typical dictionary might define that word. Science is taken forward via questioning and testing - not by inflexible dogma. And scientists came to believe in billions of years, evolution, and no recent global flood because of EVIDENCE.

The many opponents of YEC-ism (including those who profess to be Christians and YECs admit that embracing YEC dogma is not required in order to be saved) do NOT start from a position that "because evolution is true, scientific evidence points to the veracity of evolution". Rather, their position is "evolution appears to be true because the scientific evidence clearly points to this". YEC claims - in effect they claim this though they are not fully open about it - that their opponents, like them, are dogmatic presuppositionalists who have decided beforehand what the evidence 'must' always show/confirm are simply BOGUS.
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Re: Review of a YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:11 pm

YEC-ism is not about what a person actually believes, even if they are a fellow Christian. It is about what they are SUPPOSED to believe.
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Re: Review of a YEC book

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:58 pm

I have now skimmed through the whole of this book.

In Chapter 14 Otis complains that theistic evolution (an honest if difficult attempt to reconcile scientific findings with scripture) is, among other things, something which "elevates science as an equal authority with Scripture".

If this man was truly consistent in his extreme position (extreme because modern knowledge refutes Genesis literalism unless God is a deceiver like Satan is said to be) I suggest that he should insist that the Sun orbits the Earth and shun all the modern technology developed by scientists without the slightest reference to Scripture which has helped him disseminate his dogmatic anti-scientific views across the globe including to my computer.

I recently briefly emailed him and his wife, flagging this thread and the BCSE blog posts, and calling his book 'venomous'. He did not reply.
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