The Unscientific Model

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The Unscientific Model

Postby ukantic » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm

April 16, 2012 10:30 am ET by Simon Maloy

This past Tuesday, Tennessee governor Bill Haslam let become law a controversial "academic freedom" bill that protects teachers who want to "help[] students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught within the curriculum framework." The bill singles out "biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning" as examples of the scientific theories whose "weaknesses" are deserving of review.
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Re: The Unscientific Model

Postby cathy » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:04 am

How the hell did they let that through? And thinking about it does that raise the issue that creationists are now, in reality, threatening genuine academic freedoms in schools?

Cos if they start phrasing their crap in those legal terms rather than teach the controversy, and bills get passed, they use them to push creationist crap to inexperienced kids - via their special singled out treatment of evolution. And they've learnt enough deceitful tactics to do that well - look at our own Marcs behaviour with his footprints.

But if the bill didn't get passed to protect kids from creationism - then it is worded in such a way to allow them to use it to start looking out for real discussions of real scientific interest outisde of the curriculum going on in classrooms. For example the sorts of things that went on in school physics depts after the speeding neutrinos - at A level certainly. Then they use that to start doing their martyred 'they're doing it why can't we' or complaining and taking schools to court.

Lots of us do veer off curriculum ocassionally when there are interesting things in the news - that are real science. It only takes a sympathetic teacher to deliberately veer off topic to something not creationist but new and genuinely scientific in a quiet lesson and then pass it to them as an example of others 'breaking the law'. Giving them some ammo. This bill has almost put them in a win/win situation. Deceptive, slimy things! Discuss our crap or discuss nothing new of interest. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Even constraining discussions to real science won't help. Just look at how clever Marc is when it comes to deliberate deception. It's easy for them to distort real evidence to their own ends.

The more I see the more I think they really are the most deceitful, unpleasant and egotistical people I've ever come across. And I've come across a few s&$%s in my time.

Their activities are now a child protection issue. Creationism needs to be kept out of schools. it is toxic and damaging - you only need to talk to an adult creationist to see that. :evil: And creationists simply cannot be trusted, they've shown that again and again.

I know one thing. any education legislation over here needs to specifically prohibit creation 'science'/ID in any form (cos it will mutate again), in any school, and specifically state it is a religious belief and to be taught as such in RE only. That probably now needs to be an add on on everything - from the national curriculums, exam boards and freedoms from national curriculums in academies and free schools. It needs to be made a toxic topic over here before we ever get to the stage of acceptance seen in the US.

People are still to unaware - they're still in the position I was in two years ago of seeing them as harmless idiots rather than dangerous liars.
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Re: The Unscientific Model

Postby Dagsannr » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:05 am

That Governor is a coward; he was unwilling to veto the act and thus alienate a significant portion of his uneducated electorate but he was also unwilling to sign it into law and thus being ridiculed by the world and alienating his powerful and wealthy backers. So he just let it slide by.

The moment a teacher uses this law to criticise evolution on religious grounds (and someone will, they always do) the state is going to find itself with another expensive, tax-payer funded courtcase to lose.
There are 2 types of people in the world:

Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Re: The Unscientific Model

Postby GrumpyBob » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:12 am

In the case of Dover, wasn't it the school district (and its pro-ID creationist board members) that carried the (financial) can for breaking the law by teaching religion? I mean rather than the State?

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Re: The Unscientific Model

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:53 pm

GrumpyBob wrote:In the case of Dover, wasn't it the school district (and its pro-ID creationist board members) that carried the (financial) can for breaking the law by teaching religion? I mean rather than the State?


As far as I know, if the state mandates teaching of creation, action can and has been taken against it or the state board of education in the courts. See the following landmark cases:

Segraves v. State of California

McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education

Edwards v. Aguillard

However, if a lower level school board mandates teaching creationism then it can also face legal action even though the state in which it is located is not involved. That is what happened at Dover.

As far as I am aware, individual states have considerable control over state boards of education including appointment of some or all members. They don't have such direct power over local boards but can, for example, withhold grants for textbooks if they don't toe the line.

American politics is also fairly corrupt; gerrymandering, for example, is rife.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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