YEC claims human chromosome 2 fusion disproven

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YEC claims human chromosome 2 fusion disproven

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:06 pm

http://agnophilo.wordpress.com/2013/11/ ... ment-19226
I've just added the following comment under the above blog (it awaits moderation so will not yet be visible to others):


"
Agnophilo/Mark

A few minutes ago I sent the following email to YEC blogger Tim Gilleand (it is his blog of 25 October which contained the illustration which you highlight above, and you have just commented there):
http://gracesalt.wordpress.com/2013/10/ ... /#comments

Tim (Gilleand)
Agnophilo (blogger)

I’ve tried to add the following comment under this blog post:
http://gracesalt.wordpress.com/2013/10/ ... /#comments
But I keep getting a nonsense message (not from Grace with Salt)
saying that my Facebook login has ‘expired’.

“Agnophilo
By coincidence, this has just appeared online (I listened from 13 minutes in):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWsoColt ... e=youtu.be

YEC Ian Juby refers to a paper by YEC Jeffrey Tomkins in the non-peer
reviewed (except by fellow YECs) Answers Research Journal. He claims
that the telomere found somewhere near the middle of human chromosome 2
(an extra centromere in effect) is not a telomere but part of a
functional gene viz “a functional DNA binding domain inside the first
intron of the DDX11L2 regulatory RNA helicase gene”.
This is the rather lengthy and technical paper in question:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... ome-fusion
I have only fully read the Abstract; I would also have scrutinised the
sources quoted in Tomkins’ footnotes but in fact all he provides is a
load of references that are not linked to specific comments in his
text. Not particularly helpful.
For what it’s worth, there is some discussion of Juby and Tomkins
here:
https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman
Juby’s diagrams somewhat confusingly imply, following the sequencing
of the chimp genome (since the Ken Miller video was filmed), that two
‘chimp’ chromosomes fused in our genome. Scientists say our ancestral
chromosomes in the human lineage 2A and 2B fused – sometime after
chimps and humans diverged from their now extinct common ancestor ape
species.
Two questions spring into my mind. (1) Has any scientist who accepts
evolution addressed Tomkins’ recent claims? (2) Has Tomkins attempted
to get his dramatic claims published in any peer reviewed science
journal or merely disseminated them in a journal that is mostly read by
biblical creationists?
Ashley”

I cannot find an email address for Agnophilo. Thus I am posting the contents of this email here:
http://agnophilo.wordpress.com/2013/11/ ... pretation/

(I’m attempting to post this via Googlemail, due to the problems with Facebook.)"
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: YEC claims human chromosome 2 fusion disproven

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:10 pm

It would be good if a scientist or blogger with appropriate scientific background took a look at the Tomkins claim and dealt with it.

Assuming that is that it does not hold water?
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Re: YEC claims human chromosome 2 fusion disproven

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:06 pm

I get the feeling few have read my opening post...

The Juby video link somehow disappeared when I made the post. It has now been added BACK.
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Re: YEC claims human chromosome 2 fusion disproven

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:07 pm

I have just come across another example of the sheer stupidity of YECs (I was not looking for it though such searches have often proved productive in the past).

Mr Tim Gilleand has censored an attempted post here (logging in via GoogleMail as I had problems with Facebook):
http://gracesalt.wordpress.com/2013/10/ ... /#comments

This is what I wrote:
"The other day I had problems posting here (due to some nonsense from Facebook). So I emailed Tim. I also tried posting at Agnophilo’s blog. However, for unknown reasons my post – which had links – has yet to be moderated (I’ve just reminded). See: http://agnophilo.wordpress.com/2013/11/ ... pretation/
So another tempt to outwit Facebook and make my originally planned comment here:
Agnophilo and Tim
By coincidence, this has just appeared online (I listened from 13 minutes in):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWsoColt ... e=youtu.be
YEC Ian Juby refers to a paper by YEC Jeffrey Tomkins in the non-peer
reviewed (except by fellow YECs) Answers Research Journal. He claims
that the telomere found somewhere near the middle of human chromosome 2
(an extra centromere in effect) is not a telomere but part of a
functional gene viz “a functional DNA binding domain inside the first
intron of the DDX11L2 regulatory RNA helicase gene”.
This is the rather lengthy and technical paper in question:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... ome-fusion
I have only fully read the Abstract; I would also have scrutinised the
sources quoted in Tomkins’ footnotes but in fact all he provides is a
load of references that are not linked to specific comments in his
text. Not particularly helpful.
For what it’s worth, there is some discussion of Juby and Tomkins
here:
https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman
Juby’s diagrams somewhat confusingly imply, following the sequencing
of the chimp genome (since the Ken Miller video was filmed), that two
‘chimp’ chromosomes fused in our genome. Scientists say our ancestral
chromosomes in the human lineage 2A and 2B fused – sometime after
chimps and humans diverged from their now extinct common ancestor ape
species.
Two questions spring into my mind. (1) Has any scientist who accepts
evolution addressed Tomkins’ recent claims? (2) Has Tomkins attempted
to get his dramatic claims published in any peer reviewed science
journal or merely disseminated them in a journal that is mostly read by
biblical creationists?
Ashley"

Tim's emailed response (which I have just photographed) reads: "Ashley, perhaps I have other things to do than entertain your rantings. I have never written a blog about Human Chromoson #2, and thus do not know why this comment should be posted".

He seems not to understand that this concerns a creationist claim which - to my knowledge - evolutionists have failed to answer. So how is it in his interests to censor me?

He also appears to have forgotten that Agnophilo posted a blog comment about human chromosome 2 - just before that Ian Juby video appeared last week.

He also appears to have forgotten that he once told me that he does 'not' censor comments. What's that? A creationist saying one thing and doing another?

Instead of letting me air the comment (as I say after Agnophilo mentioned Ken Miller and human chromosome 2) he instead makes a spiteful sounding response - and censors me.

Censorship and evasion - the ONLY real answers you ever get from a young Earth creationist.

They have NO respect for anybody except for fellow members of their own narrow and anti-intellectual subculture.

If you make any sort of cogent or detailed scientific argument you are 'ranting'.

Gilleand will either climb down or will use this episode as an excuse to ban me from commenting again under his blogs (to note that even my attempted posts without any links are now suddenly 'awaiting moderation' by him).

I have just flagged this thread by an email referring to bigotry and stupidity - including to Mr Gilleand - and will also attempt to flag it (or failing that this latest post without the link) at the Agnophilo blog as the blogger does not appear to have a publicly available email address.

It might even rouse him from his slumber.
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: YEC claims human chromosome 2 fusion disproven

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:24 pm

At the fourth attempt I managed to flag this thread here (my first comment STILL has not been moderated):
http://agnophilo.wordpress.com/2013/11/ ... /#comments
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Posts: 8164
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: YEC claims human chromosome 2 fusion disproven

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:45 pm

My rant at 11.07 pm was because I was FALSELY accused of 'ranting' previously.
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Location: United Kingdom


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