Debating scriptures with non-believers

Many Christians do not believe that Scripture supports the Young Earth Creationist position. This moderated forum is for good natured scholarly debate.

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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:52 pm

MrDunday wrote:But the scientists could not tell if they are assertions or not. They can't detect intelligence.


An utterly stupid statement. Scientists detect intelligence all the time in the evidence they look at. Try asking, for example, a forensic scientist or an archaeologist. They are very good at it.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:55 pm

Natman wrote:
MrDunday wrote:
Natman wrote:The Book of Natman, chapter 2 verse 13:

Evolution is true, lo, because it's in a holy book. I don't give a damn if you don't believe in it, it's written, therefore my followers will use it and claim it's good evidence. Amen

That means you have faith that the scientists will prove it one day. How is that different than many religions?


I was taking the piss. Seriously, you can't even get that right....


LOL!!! He's completely incapable of understanding anything anyone says! It's like talking to a brick shit house.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby MrDunday » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:00 pm

cathy wrote:
Interesting cos every single thing I've ever found on a creationist website has been a lie. I've yet to find a totally honest creationist. Does that mean that creationists are the real agents of satan? Now that would be interesting.

Jesus himself said that.


John 14:30
Amplified Bible (AMP)
30I will not talk with you much more, for the prince (evil genius, ruler) of the world is coming. And he has no claim on Me. [He has nothing in common with Me; there is nothing in Me that belongs to him, and he has no power over Me.]

Jesus is saying this


John 12:31
Amplified Bible (AMP)
31Now the judgment (crisis) of this world is coming on [sentence is now being passed on this world]. Now the ruler (evil genius, prince) of this world shall be cast out (expelled).


James 4:4
Amplified Bible (AMP)
4You [are like] unfaithful wives [having illicit love affairs with the world and breaking your marriage vow to God]! Do you not know that being the world's friend is being God's enemy? So whoever chooses to be a friend of the world takes his stand as an enemy of God.

The bible pictures false religions, as a prostitute. What it means is that they are in bed with the governments. The governments are pictured as a wild beast, because they have beast like rule over the people ( harsh treatment). That is why the world is like it is.


1 John 3:8
Amplified Bible (AMP)
8[But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].
That is why Jesus died on the earth. It answered Satan's taunt, that no one would serve God to the death, and because they wanted too.


What this means is that Satan is the ruler of the earth, for Christians it means that getting involved in governments and wars etc etc. is really being a friend of the world. As the bible says a prostitute, in bed with the governments.
We see many times religions causing wars or taking part in them.
If you think about it, if Christian religions, all refused to go into the military there would be no WW1 or WW2. But instead some Christian religions bless the weapons and militarily men. So what you have is men killing other men even in the same religions. Some times even their own family. It just depends on where you live. So that means men are loyal to their countries and not to God. That is why Jesus never got involved in leading the people as a government on the earth. If he did, he would be serving Satan, as Satan is the ruler. That is why the Jews hated him, they wanted him to lead them out of the situation with the Romans.
That also mean any death and sickness and imperfection, and all problems humans face today, are a result of Satan's rulership. People blame God but it is rally Satan that has done all of this.


2 Corinthians 4:4

Amplified Bible (AMP)

4For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers' minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image and Likeness of God.

That is why I said the scientists are not stupid, but they have blinded themselves. They don't even consider ID. So this scripture is accurate, they are blinded.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby MrDunday » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:05 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
MrDunday wrote:But the scientists could not tell if they are assertions or not. They can't detect intelligence.


An utterly stupid statement. Scientists detect intelligence all the time in the evidence they look at. Try asking, for example, a forensic scientist or an archaeologist. They are very good at it.

This is acutely true. Many scientists have said this. Though I could not believe them, when I first heard this. But talking to them , shows this to be true.
The problems with creation and the hypothesis of the scientists is that simple.
If you get anything out of this discussion, you will find this true. They have set up their methods of research purposely, not to detect ID.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:14 pm

MrDunday wrote:This is acutely true.


Wow. What a staggeringly deep insight you have into science.

Who would have thought of that?

Pity that the rest of what you said is incoherent drivel.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:17 pm

MrDunday wrote:[

What this means is that Satan is the ruler of the earth, for Christians it means that getting involved in governments and wars etc etc. is really being a friend of the world. As the bible says a prostitute, in bed with the governments.
We see many times religions causing wars or taking part in them.
If you think about it, if Christian religions, all refused to go into the military there would be no WW1 or WW2. But instead some Christian religions bless the weapons and militarily men. So what you have is men killing other men even in the same religions. Some times even their own family. It just depends on where you live. So that means men are loyal to their countries and not to God. That is why Jesus never got involved in leading the people as a government on the earth. If he did, he would be serving Satan, as Satan is the ruler. That is why the Jews hated him, they wanted him to lead them out of the situation with the Romans..


So you're a dominionist? Doesn't surprise me.

Shrug.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby MrDunday » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:50 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
MrDunday wrote:This is acutely true.


Wow. What a staggeringly deep insight you have into science.

Who would have thought of that?

Pity that the rest of what you said is incoherent drivel.

Why?
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby MrDunday » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:50 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
MrDunday wrote:[

What this means is that Satan is the ruler of the earth, for Christians it means that getting involved in governments and wars etc etc. is really being a friend of the world. As the bible says a prostitute, in bed with the governments.
We see many times religions causing wars or taking part in them.
If you think about it, if Christian religions, all refused to go into the military there would be no WW1 or WW2. But instead some Christian religions bless the weapons and militarily men. So what you have is men killing other men even in the same religions. Some times even their own family. It just depends on where you live. So that means men are loyal to their countries and not to God. That is why Jesus never got involved in leading the people as a government on the earth. If he did, he would be serving Satan, as Satan is the ruler. That is why the Jews hated him, they wanted him to lead them out of the situation with the Romans..


So you're a dominionist? Doesn't surprise me.

Shrug.

Why did you say that?
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:06 pm

MrDunday wrote:
Roger Stanyard wrote:
MrDunday wrote:[

What this means is that Satan is the ruler of the earth, for Christians it means that getting involved in governments and wars etc etc. is really being a friend of the world. As the bible says a prostitute, in bed with the governments.
We see many times religions causing wars or taking part in them.
If you think about it, if Christian religions, all refused to go into the military there would be no WW1 or WW2. But instead some Christian religions bless the weapons and militarily men. So what you have is men killing other men even in the same religions. Some times even their own family. It just depends on where you live. So that means men are loyal to their countries and not to God. That is why Jesus never got involved in leading the people as a government on the earth. If he did, he would be serving Satan, as Satan is the ruler. That is why the Jews hated him, they wanted him to lead them out of the situation with the Romans..


So you're a dominionist? Doesn't surprise me.

Shrug.

Why did you say that?


Because you claim that government is in bed with some kind of prostitute and that "Christians" should get involved. Apart from the very obvious fact that Christians are involved in politics just as others of different beliefs are, it sounds like a clarion call for a theocracy.

It stinks.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby MrDunday » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:02 pm

Evolution is true, lo, because it's in a holy book. I don't give a damn if you don't believe in it, it's written, therefore my followers will use it and claim it's good evidence. Amen
That means you have faith that the scientists will prove it one day. How is that different than many religions?

I was taking the piss. Seriously, you can't even get that right....

LOL!!! He's completely incapable of understanding anything anyone says! It's like talking to a brick shit house.


Yes I know what you were saying. I just decided to by pass it as it was just silly jousting. I wanted to get on to something that had more substance.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby MrDunday » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:21 pm

Roger wrote:

What this means is that Satan is the ruler of the earth, for Christians it means that getting involved in governments and wars etc etc. is really being a friend of the world. As the bible says a prostitute, in bed with the governments.
We see many times religions causing wars or taking part in them.
If you think about it, if Christian religions, all refused to go into the military there would be no WW1 or WW2. But instead some Christian religions bless the weapons and militarily men. So what you have is men killing other men even in the same religions. Some times even their own family. It just depends on where you live. So that means men are loyal to their countries and not to God. That is why Jesus never got involved in leading the people as a government on the earth. If he did, he would be serving Satan, as Satan is the ruler. That is why the Jews hated him, they wanted him to lead them out of the situation with the Romans.

So you're a dominionist? Doesn't surprise me.

Shrug.

Because you claim that government is in bed with some kind of prostitute and that "Christians" should get involved. Apart from the very obvious fact that Christians are involved in politics just as others of different beliefs are, it sounds like a clarion call for a theocracy.

It stinks.

Now that you mentioned it, it is a call for theocracy. That is what the bible is about, sovereignty. Who has the right to rule the earth? Because Adam and Eve chose Satan we inherited this. So for all men, Satan has been the ruler. God gave this time so that people will see how it turns out. Well we see that! Man does not have that ability to rule himself, and is influenced by Satan. So Christian religions that get involved in politics, the bible likens them to a prostitute, in bed with the political rulers.
Roger can you deny, that is what is happening today? Many people blame Christians for causing many wars, and that they are hypocritical.
The bible knew that was going to happen thousands of years ago. But the bible also tells us why.
The bible also says many will say there is no God. That is true also.
Things are going along, just as was said thousands of years ago.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:24 pm

MrDunday wrote:
Now that you mentioned it, it is a call for theocracy. That is what the bible is about, sovereignty. Who has the right to rule the earth? Because Adam and Eve chose Satan we inherited this. So for all men, Satan has been the ruler. God gave this time so that people will see how it turns out. Well we see that! Man does not have that ability to rule himself, and is influenced by Satan. So Christian religions that get involved in politics, the bible likens them to a prostitute, in bed with the political rulers.
Roger can you deny, that is what is happening today? Many people blame Christians for causing many wars, and that they are hypocritical.
The bible knew that was going to happen thousands of years ago. But the bible also tells us why.
The bible also says many will say there is no God. That is true also.
Things are going along, just as was said thousands of years ago.


So you don't believe in freedom of religion then?
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby MrDunday » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:01 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
MrDunday wrote:
Now that you mentioned it, it is a call for theocracy. That is what the bible is about, sovereignty. Who has the right to rule the earth? Because Adam and Eve chose Satan we inherited this. So for all men, Satan has been the ruler. God gave this time so that people will see how it turns out. Well we see that! Man does not have that ability to rule himself, and is influenced by Satan. So Christian religions that get involved in politics, the bible likens them to a prostitute, in bed with the political rulers.
Roger can you deny, that is what is happening today? Many people blame Christians for causing many wars, and that they are hypocritical.
The bible knew that was going to happen thousands of years ago. But the bible also tells us why.
The bible also says many will say there is no God. That is true also.
Things are going along, just as was said thousands of years ago.


So you don't believe in freedom of religion then?

Yes I do believe in freedom of religion. People have the right to choose what they think and do. That is what free will is. I can not judge anyone. But people also have to accept the consequences of their actions. Whether they are good or bad.
But many religions have taught that you go to hell if you don't follow God. There is no place as hell, God does not torture people . Adam and Eve were to live forever, with no thought of dying. So why would there be a hell?
Most of the people that have died from Adam to us, will be resurrected to the earth. Once you die you have paid the price of sin. ( imperfection) So most that have died will get a resurrection.There are some exceptions. One of these is Christian Clergy. The bible says they will not. The reason is that they should have been teaching God commands but they made up their own ideas, and are hypocritical, so those one do not get a resurrection. They are accountable for the bad name they have given God. There are some others also.
All of this, is about freedom to choose.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:27 pm

MrDunday wrote:All of this, is about freedom to choose.


A theocracy isn't.
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Re: Debating scriptures with non-believers

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:34 pm

MrDunday wrote:Most of the people that have died from Adam to us, will be resurrected to the earth. Once you die you have paid the price of sin. ( imperfection) So most that have died will get a resurrection.There are some exceptions. One of these is Christian Clergy. The bible says they will not. The reason is that they should have been teaching God commands but they made up their own ideas, and are hypocritical, so those one do not get a resurrection. They are accountable for the bad name they have given God. There are some others also.
All of this, is about freedom to choose.


Well, obviously you don't like Catholics or any other denomination that has pastors or clerics.

Good grief, you really are an intollerant prick.

The clergy are evil, the scientists don't know what they are talking about, the public are all dupes and the politicians in bed with prostitutes.

So now we've established you are a Muslim, why didn't you have the honesty to say so in the first place?
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