YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Creationist bloggers can be infuriating. If one has infuriated you by persisting in nonsense even when corrected, or refusing to reply to your criiticsm, you may feel driven to recording the fact. If so, you may register your disapproval here and hope a response is forthcoming.

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YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:28 am

I have just sent the following as a wide circulation email:


"Another deranged, lying, hypocritical YEC

MR ISSAC BOURNE.

Whether you already believe my title above to be accurate, or think
that it is 'over the top' or merely 'attention-seeking', if you wish
PLEASE do examine the salient bits from the two links below (the first
photo is from the 'Question Kirk Hastings' Facebook page and the other
two from the 'Evolution is a Lie' Facebook page). I suggest doing this
BEFORE reading my accusations below.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Question ... 1674307616
https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALi ... 7103623758

(1) Bourne has blogged accusing trained scientists, one of whom is a
Christian, of cheating. I have just checked online - and they did NO
such thing. Bourne is merely showing either his ignorance or his utter
dishonesty. He has an agenda but also does not understand science, so I
leave to others to judge whether he is arrogantly and erroneously
pontificating on a topic he does not understand or wilfully lying on a
topic that he does sort of understand;
(2) Either way, before investigating further and discovering that he
was totally wrong and possibly deliberately lying, I asked him politely
to explain more clearly how he thought the scientists had 'cheated' as
he alleged;
(3) Before I could post again, pointing out that he was wrong, wrong
and wrong again he acted in a most cowardly, unethical and aggressive
manner - and instantly censored and banned me. And played to the
gallery as follows: "Next time Ashley Haworth-roberts I won't just ban
you. I will report you to FB. And you know why. Signing up under
different accounts to go around being banned shows you are a trouble
maker and a troll. Oh by the way, the e-mails you send that you think
bug me. You are on my spam list so I never see them. Don't even know if
you still send them. ~ Issac";
(4) Thus he accuses me of 'trolling' for politely asking a question
that he dares NOT attempt to answer. And threatens to report me to
Facebook for ... posting on someone's Facebook page using my REAL
name.

Evil.

As any non-evil person with a brain will soon realise, if they examine
the two links (and assume, correctly, that I am telling the truth).

This message is copied to Mary Schweitzer. She is probably used to
behaviour like this from young earth creationist Christian science
deniers. Who are the real frauds when it comes to science.

Go ON Issac - report me to Facebook NOW if I have done anything wrong.
Let me know what they say in response.

In the meantime this message goes onto the BCSE community forum, as a
warning to others about [how] they might be treated by Mr Bourne if they do
not 'like' his fictional anti-science blog posts.

A H-R"
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne - FRAUD

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:41 am

If anybody knows the email address for 'Evolution is a Lie' perhaps they could send it to me as a PM (since Issac claims not to read my emails sent to the email address I already have for him, which refers to 'ikester')?
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:42 pm

MODERATOR NOTE
I haven't bothered to follow your links before removing "fraud" from your subject line. I think we can manage without using such words as fraud and liar in subject lines, particularly in capital letters.
Brian
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby Michael » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:06 pm

Ashley, it is not worth all this. Ignore them most of the time
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:22 am

Brian Jordan wrote:MODERATOR NOTE
I haven't bothered to follow your links before removing "fraud" from your subject line. I think we can manage without using such words as fraud and liar in subject lines, particularly in capital letters.
Brian


I'm somewhat confused because the title of the Petersen thread was not amended. I was not claiming to speak for the BCSE on either occasion - this is a discussion forum open to all, not a blog or an official statement.
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby Michael » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:43 am

Ashley, everyone knows YECs tell porkies
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:56 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:I'm somewhat confused because the title of the Petersen thread was not amended. I was not claiming to speak for the BCSE on either occasion - this is a discussion forum open to all, not a blog or an official statement.
One offensive title may be an infelicity. Two is definitely a transgression. You'll see that I also edited the Peterson subject yesterday and said that I'd done it "belatedly".
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:23 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:
a_haworthroberts wrote:I'm somewhat confused because the title of the Petersen thread was not amended. I was not claiming to speak for the BCSE on either occasion - this is a discussion forum open to all, not a blog or an official statement.
One offensive title may be an infelicity. Two is definitely a transgression. You'll see that I also edited the Peterson subject yesterday and said that I'd done it "belatedly".


As long as we are being consistent.

I will have more to say about Mr Bourne a bit later on (when I have a bit more time).
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:48 pm

Michael wrote:Ashley, everyone knows YECs tell porkies


I would say that many Christians in places like the US who use YEC materials (not those who write them) do not realise that YECs do this. That is, they assume that if the person defending the historical 'infallibility' of the opening chapters of Genesis has a PhD and is also a keen Christian then they will not be misrepresenting or unreasonably belittling the findings of science. In nearly all instances, such an assumption is misguided of course. In other cases - because the fundamentalist Christian believes he or she is in a war with Satan, the 'Father of Lies' who has deceived the world using bad science - I suspect that they do not even CARE whether the YEC they are reading may have misrepresented or unreasonably belittled current scientific knowledge and understanding because the YEC has 'strengthened' their faith in the reliability of scripture and thus their belief in Jesus and the gospel too.

Of course everybody who has properly examined and then consequently rejected YEC teachings (other than when they move on to preach the gospel though some will reject that too as 'mythical') because they are very poor science knows very well that (whatever their personal conviction regarding their words) YECS DO TELL PORKIES.

Most of those posting on this discussion forum know this!

Many of those visiting this discussion forum as observers only (apart from those who write YEC materials) are YECs who do not as yet realise that YECs tell porkies. Some will move on to reject YEC apologetics whilst remaining committed Christians which is absolutely fine. Others will cling on to YEC dogma REGARDLESS of how many refutations of YEC teaching they may read (and adequately understand) on websites such as this. They will rationalise that evolution, billions of years and the big bang are all 'lies' of Satan therefore we 'must' all be wrong and they 'must' be right and therefore they are entitled to continue preaching their dogma and accusing their opponents of spreading 'lies' or not understanding science 'properly' and not accepting that ANY scientific hypotheses or theories about the distant past are 'baseless speculations' that are 'refuted' by Genesis (properly understood).
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:26 pm

Bourne wrote on his 'EvolutionisaLie' facebook page:
"In their desperation to have an excuse to remove the slightest chance that this evidence would support creation, they instead left the door open for creationists to not only be able to debunk this. But in turn show how they had to cheat to even get the results they wanted. Because when is the tissue ever exposed to just pure water and zero blood? So what was the point of the water?
The water experiment was a non=real world diversion that had nothing to do with any conditions that any tissue would be found in, inside of bone. It was however a way to pull the wool over our eyes by saying: See how water decays this and blood don't? So on 2 counts they also cheated.
1) Blood only (hemoglobin) is never found as a condition inside bone with the tissue because water is essential to all life. So the two would be together.
2) Water only is not a real world condition at all.
All this was done as a big show of rapid decay verses virtually no decay. Not one real world condition verses another. Example: If the dinosaur tissue were in this condition it would have decayed in two weeks. If it were in this condition it would have been preserved for millions of years. But both not being real world conditions as I have shown means they lied. They planned to deceive because my first questions to the would be:
1) Why no real world conditions?
2) Why use pure blood (hemoglobin) when water is a part of the blood because it's essential to life?
~ Issac".

I wrote under his article (before I had closely examined his claims):
"Please explain more clearly how you think the scientists (one of whom is a Christian as well) managed to get published in a peer-reviewed journal if they 'cheated'. I don't follow your argument."

He almost immediately censored my post and banned me, responding thus:
"Next time Ashley Haworth-roberts I won't just ban you. I will report you to FB. And you know why. Signing up under different accounts to go around being banned shows you are a trouble maker and a troll. Oh by the way, the e-mails you send that you think bug me. You are on my spam list so I never see them. Don't even know if you still send them. ~ Issac"

Thus I was prevented from making the following SUBSTANTIVE reply to his accusatory piece on Facebook:
"The scientists did NOT cheat. You are either clueless or are lying. The water in blood is within blood plasma. Haemoglobin is found within red blood cells that are suspended within the plasma. Anybody can check such facts. And the experiment also placed blood vessels and cells in water (as well as haemoglobin) as a CONTROL."


These look to me like the actions of a fraud/FRAUD. However, I will offer Mr Bourne the opportunity to prove otherwise - see my next post.
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:35 pm

I have just attempted to message Mr Bourne as follows as THIS website:
http://yecheadquarters.org/?author=1

"Mr Bourne
Please see the discussion here, notably the opening post and also my post at 9.26 pm GMT on 17 Dec:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3406&p=48004#p48004
Please either REFUTE my substantive response or - if you cannot do so - publish another blog post explaining that you made an error and Mary Schweitzer and the other scientists did NOT 'cheat'.
If you fail to do either, that will convince that you are indeed a fraud when it comes to science. Which would explain why you banned me.
Ashley Haworth-Roberts"
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:21 pm

Email as sent to Mr Bourne (should he be reading any emails I send and if he is refusing to do so that is his look-out):


"Issac Bourne

Please READ the attached thread (this community forum is open to all):
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3406

I have also attempted to contact you about it via this website but do not know whether the message (viewable at the attached thread timed at 9.35 pm GMT on 17 Dec) reached you successfully:
http://yecheadquarters.org/?author=1

The first copy recipient (who is a YEC like you) sent me an email reply yesterday which included the following sentence: "If you call any scientist a cheat or liar you need to quote chapter and verse as to precisely why this is true". Well, I have also explained in a post there - composed just after you banned me from your Facebook page - why the scientists you mention did NOT 'cheat' as you alleged (one of them is a Christian I believe). Please ask me if my response is not clear enough to you.

(Also copied to the BCSE committee - I am not a committee member - for information ONLY.)

I suggest that you definitely should read my latest message to you as it offers an opportunity for you to start to demonstrate that you are not a fraud regarding science. The question is - will you take it?

Ashley Haworth-Roberts".
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:36 pm

Just checked 'YEC Headquarters' and the same LIES about Mary Schweitzer and other scientists are still there, uncorrected.

'Evolution is a Lie' is a Liar and a Fraud. Proven.
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:37 pm

Like I said just now at the Bill Nye thread...

https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie

His comment in the discussion about the Nye-Ham debate: "The atheists here were all big mouths and I challenged several to a debate. They all came up with excuses and backed out. So they proved evolution is no longer a theory here, let's see if they will do the same at this debate."

I corrected false material on Bourne's blog and he censored, banned and then libelled me.

HYPOCRITE.
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Re: YEC Mr Issac Bourne

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:39 pm

Most of Bourne's rants seem to appear here: https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie
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