A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby Paul Braterman » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:12 pm

We know (from palaeomagnetism) that the Earth's magnetic field reverses itself from time to time. The solid core growth theory gives a possible explanation for this. Moreover, these reversals are useful in timing events (since we know from igneous rocks, the gold standard of radiometric dating, what the direction of the Earth's field was at various times). A recent example is the narrowing of the time window for the Australopithecus sediba find. We can also use shifts in direction to chart the movement of the continents under the influence of plate tectonics over tens or hundreds of millions of years.

Why any of this should be taken as evidence for a young earth is beyond me. Perhaps I'm just not wearing the right glasses.
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:14 pm

There have also been posts about this today in the Ken Ham Facebook thread (though this is not Ham or AiG).
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:14 am

http://creation.com/mercury-magnetized-crust
Dr Humphreys has chipped in after Dr Sarfati, in responding to Peter H:

"I think Peter is implying that Mercury may be at the tail end of a reversal, in which case its present catastrophic decline would not be a free decay of its interior electric current, but rather a decay powered by the alleged 'dynamo' in its core. Then we couldn't use the decline to estimate an age.
That is a possibility, but a very unlikely one. According to the long-ages view of earth's magnetic reversals, they happen rapidly (taking only thousands of years) but very infrequently (millions to tens of millions of years between reversals). The long-agers' view of earth's present decline is also that it is a reversal in progress. What is the probability that two such unlikely events would be happening on two different planets at the same time? Pretty low.
I prefer the much more likely alternative: Mercury is as young as the Bible says."

This followed what Sarfati said which I alluded to in the other thread. After Peter H wrote: "I understand that the Earth has undergone reversals of its magnetic field. If this also the case for Mercury, a currently reducing field would not necessarily say anything about the age of Mercury".
Sarfati then responded: "The matter of field reversals is answered in The earth’s magnetic field: evidence that the earth is young, based on work by the author of this article, Dr Humphreys. In short, Earth has undergone very rapid reversals that would have depleted the magnetic energy even faster".

In response to Humphreys he is assuming that the 'long-agers' view' would discover/predict a cycle of magnetic reversals on Mercury of equivalent length to that on Earth ie not any shorter (or a frequency of reversal no greater).
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:27 am

Interesting...
http://www.anthonysmith.me.uk/2012/05/2 ... eationism/
http://www.anthonysmith.me.uk/2012/06/0 ... /#comments
(including a couple of comments under the two articles)

He seems quite open-minded. Even after attending a 'Carrying the Creation Torch' conference!
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:52 pm

I've already supplied Tim with my comments on this YEC blog (and told him I would post the blog here without comment):
http://gracesalt.wordpress.com/2012/07/ ... -universe/
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:59 am

YECs have persuaded themselves - from scripture not from what is actually happening - that atheists, long-agers, evolutionists and atheists are all lying.

Thus they have rationalised that lying for JESUS is OK.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... ibles-abcs
"For example, it’s not adequate enough today just to teach about the Flood and the Ark of Noah. The account must be shown as historical and accurate. The new ABC curriculum will answer the skeptical questions about the Flood, such as: was the Ark really big enough to handle all the animals?; where did all the water come from to cover the earth?; and don’t modern-day geologists say there are no remnants of a global Flood?"
As if 'answering' all these would prove the story to be real, accurate, HISTORY.
As if.
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:21 am

And Mr Ham is 'banging on' on his Facebook page:
"I explained there was no neutral position--one is either for or against Christ." HE GETS THAT FROM THE BIBLE AND NOT FROM REALITY.

Thus:
"Now consider, even though there are a minority of Christians who try to be missionaries in the pagan system, by and large, pubic schools are Temples of Humanism. For around 5 hours a day, 90 percent of kids from church homes go to these Temples where they often have their anti-Christian religious icons hanging on the wall--such as illustrations of apes turning into humans. They have their religious icons in their textbooks where kids are really told to worship the creature, not the Creator by the priests of humanism. In these temples time an death go together (not sin and death as is so in Christianity). Time (Millions of years) is really their god. In these Temples of humanism, kids are taught that the supernatural has nothing to do with life and the universe. Christians need to understand that when such judges rule that kids going into a church is a supposed violation of the constitution because it is a place with religious icons etc-- the truth is that kids going to the public school pagan Temples are going to a place that has a religious fervor and religious icons to teach kids against the Christian God and the truth of God's Word beginning in Genesis. By and large public schools have become Temples of atheism. We certainly need to pray for the Christian missionaries in that system ( as I was many years ago)--it is becoming extremely difficult to be such a missionary in such an anti-God system".

Read intolerant book, apply intolerant book, become an intolerant narrow-minded person who accuses everybody else who fails to agree with him.
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:24 am

Yes, he DID mistype 'public': http://www.facebook.com/aigkenham (see his comments about a Fox News story)
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby cathy » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:24 am

Yes, he DID mistype 'public'
Phew I did begin to wonder if he'd been meaning naturism instead of naturalism all these years.
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:46 am

Ken Ham wants Christian leaders to reject science.
http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs ... ally-mean/
"However, I do believe that no matter how great a Christian leader is, if he doesn’t take a stand on the days of creation but allows man’s ideas of millions of years to influence how he interprets Genesis, the leader (maybe unwittingly in many cases) contributes to an undermining of the authority of the Word they believe in."
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:48 am

For Ken Ham and his ilk honest doubt - even for a saved Christian - is the sin of 'questioning God'. Pity God didn't give us a more believable account of origins.
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:23 am

Ken Ham wants Christian leaders to reject science


He's at it again:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... s-of-years

Many Christian leaders think that as long as they reject biological evolution, then it doesn’t really matter about the age of the earth. These pastors and theologians believe that by rejecting Darwinian evolution, they have shut the door to compromise regarding the authority of the Scriptures.

The reality, however, is that by allowing for millions of years, these Christian leaders have kept a “compromise door” open. If that door is not completely shut, then the next generation of leaders will push the door open further.


1.The Bible does not even hint of millions or billions of years. If you take the Bible as written, it’s obvious God created in six literal days. With the specific history given in the genealogical lists, it’s very clear that there have been only about 6,000 years of history since time began.


If you take the bible "as written", it says absolutely nothing about a 6,000 year old Earth/universe.

Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for a Christian to accept "millions of years" and not be regarded as a compromiser:

Compromising Christian leaders need to give up not only biological evolution, but geological and cosmological evolution (i.e., billions of years). I call on Christians everywhere to shut the door to this compromise that is undermining the church and culture. Indeed, we are seeing the collapse of biblical Christianity in the West as scriptural authority is questioned.

The idea of millions of years is like a disease in the church; biological evolution is just a symptom. Your support of AiG, with God’s blessing, will help prevent the disease from spreading further


Why more evangelical Christians do not stand up to this nasty little man is beyond me.
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:11 pm

As I posted by me just now at Amazon.com, where 'One Who Learns Online' recently discussed R C Sproul (who appears ignorant of science - see his rejection of a '12 billion year old Earth' as mentioned in yesterday's Ken Ham blog) and his embrace of Six Day Creation:


Apparently R C Sproul has not fully embraced young Earth Bible-inspired beliefs. Ken Ham is on the case: http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs ... Ken+Ham%29
It would seem that, whilst apparently rejecting 'billions of years', Sproul is somewhat sitting on the fence about the age of the Earth (hence Ham's unease because he isn't fully signed up to AIG/CMI dogma) - see the 'small print' in this previous Tas Walker article: http://creation.com/famous-evangelical- ... -rc-sproul
"On a preliminary reading RC Sproul would appear to be non-committal about the age of the earth.
"Although the Bible clearly says that the world was created in six days, it gives no date for the beginning of the work. It would be a mistake to become embroiled in too much controversy about the date of creation."
However, he goes on to make it plain that he rejects the view that the earth is billions of years old.
"If we take the genealogies that go back to Adam, however, and if we make allowances for certain gaps in them (which could certainly be there), it remains a big stretch from 4004 BC to 4.6 billion years ago"".
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby marcsurtees » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:26 am

Peter Henderson wrote:Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for a Christian to accept "millions of years" and not be regarded as a compromiser...

Agreed!
But if with that you also reject 6 day creation, the garden of Eden, a literal Adam and Eve, the fall, human death as a result of the fall, the global flood, the tower of Babel...
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Re: A 6,000 year old, and Biblical, Earth and universe?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:51 am

But if with that you also reject 6 day creation, the garden of Eden, a literal Adam and Eve, the fall, human death as a result of the fall, the global flood, the tower of Babel


Belief in any of the above is irrelevant to salvation. Even the extent of the flood is dubious since the bible often refers to "all of the world" when clearly it's talking about the local region e.g. 2 Chronicles 9:23:

23 And all the kings of the earth sought the presence of Solomon, to hear his wisdom, that God had put in his heart.

In any case, there are Christians who accept geological time and all of the these and are still labelled as compromisers by Ken Ham

The bible gives no indication of the passage of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, sao why should any Christian be called a compromiser because they accept "millions of years" ?
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