Noah's Ark, creationist zoo?

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Re: Noah's Ark, creationist zoo?

Postby rthearle » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:00 pm

JimTheBrit wrote:Link to appropriate thread on RichardDawkins.net forum

Dunno if it's worth Roger's time and trouble to have a delve to see who's behind this one but I'm posting the details anyway so we're all aware of it.


Last time I looked they were pushing David Tyler's recolonisation 'model'. Hmmm.... looks like they still are:

From http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/education/earth-history
What the fossil record reveals is a record of progressive recolonisation, following a cataclysm which destroyed land and sea at the very beginning of the rock sequence.


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Noah's Ark Zoo

Postby Mike Elphick » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:40 am

This is disgraceful stuff. I first saw this site a year or so ago as it had some information about the capacity of Noah's Ark. Its significance as a British YECist centre did not hit me at the time. Look at this fabrication for example: -
Our current estimate is that all mammals, living and extinct, can be grouped into some 120 original kinds. Similarly there may have been around 100 different kinds of bird and a similar number of reptiles and amphibians, including dinosaurs. We would also need to make allowance for numerous insects and other vertebrates. With younger animals being taken in preference to older ones and the average size of the vertebrates no bigger than a sheep, there would certainly have been plenty of room for them, as well as for food and water tanks.
http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/education/what-happened/constructing-the-ark/
This is the most extreme example of 'created kinds' I have come across, presumably so that they could populate their model Ark with plastic animals and make it look 'real'.

I don't mind belief in religion, but to feed children a combined theological and historical lie, for some political motive, I find disgusting.

What corrective action against this 'zoo' can we take?
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Re: Noah's Ark Zoo

Postby Roger Stanyard » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:34 am

We one of the clear things we can do is write to the heads of science in schools in the Bristol area stating that school visits to the zoo will damage the children's education.

It's quite a big job to do. We need to find out the names and address (email or postal) of all the science teachers involved. Most I guess will be junior schools so won't have a scienc teacher. In that case I guess the person to write to is the headteacher.

Many of the schools are likely to be CofE or RC aided. I guess therefore it os worth writing to the diocese board of education. That, from my experience, is easier. Most of not all Anglican sees have their own web sites which give contcat names. I guess that is the same with RCs.

I'm happy to put some input into this such as drafting letters. However, it does need someone to take the project on and manage it.

Are there any volunteers? My guess is that anyone who took this on would not have to spend much more than a day or so on it (it would work out as a group effort with assistance from others) but it would also provide, once completed, a model for other such campaigns. It would thus be a big assett to the group.

We do have a section on out web site on Noah's Ark Farm Zoo at http://www.bcseweb.org.uk/index.php/Mai ... ArkZooFarm.



Mike Elphick wrote:I don't mind belief in religion, but to feed children a combined theological and historical lie, for some political motive, I find disgusting.

What corrective action against this 'zoo' can we take?
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Noah's Ark, creationist zoo?

Postby Jaf » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:25 pm

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 06:34:45 -0500, you wrote:

Many of the schools are likely to be CofE or RC aided. I guess therefore it os worth writing to the diocese board of education. That, from my experience, is easier.

Local Education Authorities can be found here -
http://www.dfes-uk.co.uk/dfes/52.htm
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Noah's Ark, creationist zoo?

Postby Dave Oldridge » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:10 pm

On 16 Oct 2006 at 5:40, Mike Elphick wrote:

This is disgraceful stuff. I first saw this site a year or so
ago as it had some information about the capacity of Noah's Ark.
Its significance as a British YECist centre did not hit me at
the time. Look at this fabrication for example: -

Our current estimate is that all mammals, living and extinct,
can be grouped into some 120 original kinds. Similarly there may
have been around 100 different kinds of bird and a similar
number of reptiles and amphibians, including dinosaurs. We would
also need to make allowance for numerous insects and other
vertebrates. With younger animals being taken in preference to
older ones and the average size of the vertebrates no bigger
than a sheep, there would certainly have been plenty of room for
them, as well as for food and water tanks.
http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/educat ... ed/constru
cting-the-ark/
This is the most extreme example of 'created kinds' I have come
across, presumably so that they could populate their model Ark
with plastic animals and make it look 'real'.

I don't mind belief in religion, but to feed children a combined
theological and historical lie, for some political motive, I
find disgusting.


What corrective action against this 'zoo' can we take?

One thing you can do is point out that such a scenario REQUIRES a
great deal more evolution to have occurred much faster than any
so-called "Darwinistz" has EVER proposed. In short, creationists
who make such a proposal are actually proposing evolution on
steroids as an explanation for the current diversity of life.


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Postby Mike Elphick » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:09 pm

On Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:10 pm, Dave Oldridge wrote: -
One thing you can do is point out that such a scenario REQUIRES a great deal more evolution to have occurred much faster than any so-called "Darwinistz" has EVER proposed. In short, creationists who make such a proposal are actually proposing evolution on steroids as an explanation for the current diversity of life.
Not only that, but there must have been two waves of hyper-evolution. Once when God made his original creations and then when part-evolved 'kinds' disembarked from the Ark (some to be instantly sacrificed :lol:).

Have you noticed another flaw in this nonsense? The first wave must have included a period following the Curse for the evolution of parasites and adaptation of animals for meat-eating. Therefore all the genetic information required to create these savage/unpleasant creatures must have been in the genomes of the very original kinds. Now why would God have done that? Or are they claiming that tapeworms and canine teeth developed as a result of genetic degradation :shock:?

Whilst scientists generate their theories based on facts, the 'science' of YECism seems only to be limited by imagination.
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Postby Ian Lowe » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:08 am

I'll undertake this action - it's more of a campaign thing though, so moving the discussion to the Member's area.
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Postby PaulBI » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:41 am

You might find that the (relatively) new Science Learning Centre based at Bristol would be willing to publicise a warning about this creationist zoo in their regular mailings to local schools:

http://www.sciencelearningcentres.org.u ... spx?page=9

If get in touch with them and feel it is helpful by al means say that you have been put in touch by "Paul Bowers Isaacson of the Nuffield Curriculum Centre". [I'm organising a student conference there early next month].

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Noah's Ark, creationist zoo?

Postby Dave Oldridge » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:35 pm

On 16 Oct 2006 at 10:09, Mike Elphick wrote:

On Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:10 pm, Dave Oldridge wrote: -

One thing you can do is point out that such a scenario
REQUIRES a great deal more evolution to have occurred much
faster than any so-called "Darwinistz" has EVER proposed. In
short, creationists who make such a proposal are actually
proposing evolution on steroids as an explanation for the
current diversity of life.
Not only that, but there must have been two waves of
hyper-evolution. Once when God made his original creations and
then when part-evolved 'kinds' disembarked from the Ark (some to
be instantly sacrificed [Laughing]).

Have you noticed another flaw in this nonsense? The first wave
must have included a period following the Curse for the
evolution of parasites and adaptation of animals for
meat-eating. Therefore all the genetic information required to
create these savage/unpleasant creatures must have been in the
genomes of the very original kinds. Now why would God have done
that? Or are they claiming that tapeworms and canine teeth
developed as a result of genetic degradation [Shocked]?

Whilst scientists generate their theories based on facts, the
'science' of YECism seems only to be limited by imagination.

Yes, it's essentially "Rationalization for Dummies (Intelligent
mortals need not apply)"


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