The Way Forward

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The Way Forward

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:40 pm

Just as some background as to my thinking on BCSE, many of you in the group are aware that I based my initial efforts on the strategy Michael Collins, basically the head of the IRA in the Irish war if independence (well, that’s what the Irish call it, let’s not fall out the definition).

I am no fan of the IRA, having had a friend of mine killed by it, amongst other things, but I have to give credit to Collins for being brilliant.

He basically was a post office clerk with no military background or training whatsoever. Yet he beat the biggest military of the world in its day.

I think the key to his success was intelligence (as in what spies gather). It gave him the power to move quickly and decisively but with minute resources (and BSCE has no resources except for our abilities).

It was one of he big frustrations during the spring that the anti-creationists in the UK did not mount an effective campaign against John Mackay when he toured the UK. Alan (and, from what I can gather, Michael to some lesser extent) got him kicked out of Millfield School but we did nothing about Bluecoat (because we didn’t know he was there) or any of the other schools he brags he visited.

Seeing that general ineffectiveness was the reason for setting up the database of the fundamentalist movement in the UK. As soon as TiS broke cover we were able to use it and move quickly. And we have got some big results, as you all know.

Collins didn’t have the benefit of a wiki but he had much the same in is famous filing card system. When it came to the crunch he was able to destroy the basis of British counteraction against him, the Cairo Gang. And he did that with a dozen or so hand guns and not much more in the way of bullets. His apostles were all volunteers.

In my view the destruction of the Cairo Gang was the beginning of the end for the British in Ireland. It was the seminal event in the war of independence.

I have to say that the core British creationist activists that I have detailed on our wiki I perceive as our Cairo Gang.

But it does, essentially, require us to be able to move quickly and decisively.

To me it’s a war against the creationists. We have been able to get off the ground, so to speak, by choosing our own grounds (not theirs) – out of forced necessity because of our limited resources. The creationists are not going to sit back and let this happen again.

However, we have a number of big advantages over them. What we are saying and proposing is out in the open. We are not trying to “sneak” science into the classroom or hide our aims from politicians, educators, the public and so on. We don’t have secret organisations or Wedge documents behind us. We don’t have to deceive politicians as to our real affiliations.

But we do need to protect our backs.

I think it now essential that we do two things:

1. Get together a loose central group of names that we can say represent the organisation in general. Methinks that this could be what we are calling the group “moderators” or anyone who wants to take on a roll which they can define for themselves. McIntosh and his pals are putting it around that BCSE is a one-man band – me. It ain’t so. Methinks that there is no desperate hurry to define such roles but we do need a treasurer PDQ for reasons me and Ian have outlined.

2. We also need to show to the word just what our expertise is. As far as I can make out just about everyone in the group has been through higher education of some sort and/or have jobs that would be described as professional or managerial (in the broadest sense). The members have a vast and impressive range of skills and knowledge between them.

What I would like to do is for members, if they feel happy to do so, to step forward and state their qualifications/profession so we can put together a sample list or maybe 20 or more to show to the world that we are qualified to present our case to the world. I think we do have to name the person and give their qualifications but I am open about stating, or otherwise, occupation.

As you know McIntosh and his pals are saying I am unqualified to talk about science but, jeez, there are loads of people in the group who are. Likewise, if they start shouting that we don’t know anything about religion we can throw it back at them by showing we have three ordained ministers as members.

Therefore who would like to volunteer to go on this list?

Roger
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Re: The Way Forward

Postby rthearle » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:53 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:What I would like to do is for members, if they feel happy to do so, to step forward and state their qualifications/profession so we can put together a sample list or maybe 20 or more to show to the world that we are qualified to present our case to the world. I think we do have to name the person and give their qualifications but I am open about stating, or otherwise, occupation.


You want us to brag about our qualifications? This is what YEC organisations do. We shouldn't be making claims such as 'we have over x PhDs supporting us' since then it just becomes a meaningless numbers game. We don't need to compete in this way - using evidence is better - so we shouldn't.

If all you want is a list of qualified members that can be used to counteract claims that you're a lone crank by demonstrating that you aren't alone, that's good, but it should be understated, possessed of a disclaimer re validity, untrumpeted, and used only for this purpose. (IMO)

Anyway, feel free to add

Roy Thearle, BSc MSc Mathematics [Nott] PhD Computer Science [UKC], Software engineer, 7kyu
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Re: The Way Forward

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:15 pm

rthearle wrote:If all you want is a list of qualified members that can be used to counteract claims that you're a lone crank by demonstrating that you aren't alone, that's good, but it should be understated, possessed of a disclaimer re validity, untrumpeted, and used only for this purpose. (IMO)

Agreed, but we do have to make it very clear that Roger isn't a one-man-band. McIntosh is, anyway, equivocal about qualifications. He's on record as saying it doesn't matter what qualifications you have: if you contradict the bible, you're wrong. Full stop.

Brian
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Kinda new member

Postby molecanthro » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:14 pm

I think it's good to have an idea of who's part of the group. I agree that it shouldn't be 'flaunted' or anything like that. But when speaking to lying weasels like most creationists, you can at least then reply by saying that you represent a group of specialists/scientists.
Sorry that I missed the recent get together. I will try to be on this forum more often and it would be good to meet up sometime. I work in Camden Town and Cambridge.
Mark Whitten: BSc (Anthropology and Genetics in US/Tennessee) MSc in Primate Conservation-Oxford Brookes Uni, starting a PhD next fall. Currently a visiting scholar at McDonald Institute of Archaeological Research in Cambridge and Research Associate at Royal Veterinary College.
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Re: New Members Full Stop

Postby Roger Stanyard » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:13 pm

Welcome to new members.

Thanks for joining is Molencathro (Mark)

We also have to welcome Christopher Dallman from Scotland as a new member today.

Roger

molecanthro wrote:I think it's good to have an idea of who's part of the group. I agree that it shouldn't be 'flaunted' or anything like that. But when speaking to lying weasels like most creationists, you can at least then reply by saying that you represent a group of specialists/scientists.
Sorry that I missed the recent get together. I will try to be on this forum more often and it would be good to meet up sometime. I work in Camden Town and Cambridge.
Mark Whitten: BSc (Anthropology and Genetics in US/Tennessee) MSc in Primate Conservation-Oxford Brookes Uni, starting a PhD next fall. Currently a visiting scholar at McDonald Institute of Archaeological Research in Cambridge and Research Associate at Royal Veterinary College.
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The Way Forward

Postby Anonymous » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:20 am

molecanthro wrote:
I work in Camden Town and Cambridge.

I live in Cambridge.
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Postby molecanthro » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:28 pm

cool mikey. would be good to get together for a drink or coffee. i'm usually there 3 days a week. really nice website, by the way. i'm doing my first archaeological research this year...well, ancient dna work. and might be starting a PhD next fall in prehistoric population contact so would be cool to talk to someone with similar interests.

mark.
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