DUP - Tory pact

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DUP - Tory pact

Postby cathy » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:54 pm

DUP are creationists aren't they (among their other faults). They look like they've got Teresa May over a barrel. Brexshit starting soon, no majority and a newly confident Labour. Plus her own party's remainers. So does this mean science lessons and schools are going to be at higher risk again after all your hard work? And are any of the old creationists saying anything?

I've signed petitions against the Tories joining them. Personally I think it'll be a disaster for May if she does join them havimg tried to court the far right vote and lost the middle ground in the process but she is the dimmest prime minister / human being ive seen.

Plus I think it might be a disaster for NI if it strengthens their hardline antipathy to women and gay people.

Found this
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/ju ... elying-dup
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby cathy » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:02 pm

Oops meant to post this article not the New Statesman one

https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... d-science/
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:09 pm

Gary Lineker is suggesting that this early General Election - waste of time and money - was the Own Goal of the Season. (Though it somewhat did for the SNP if you support the union - and it has done for the, by many accounts, poisonous Fiona Hill; I've also seen contrary suggestions that eg David Davis was responsible for the opportunistic early election - but if it was not May's idea she took bad advice from someone - and also that some of the bad Tory campaign strategy was down not to the two resigning, fallen or pushed, advisers but down instead to Lynton Crosby; but I thought May was only listening to Timothy and Hill?)

Some DUP people are young earth creationists or otherwise science deniers (as well as opposing abortion except when the woman's life is in danger ie they oppose abortion if a woman is raped). Arlene Foster appears to me a bit less extreme than some of them.

I think the Tories need not take too much notice of the views of Arlene Foster and her colleagues in the Northern Ireland Assembly. I think what might matter more is the opinions of the 10 DUP MPs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40220397

There's:
Ian Paisley Jnr - clearly rather religious and reactionary;
Sammy Wilson - somewhat in denial of human activity causing recent climate change;
Paul Girvan;
Nigel Dodds - Orangeman (there's a joke there somewhere);
Gavin Robinson;
Emma Little-Pengelly - supported by loyalist paramilitaries apparently;
Jeffrey Donaldson - Orangeman (ditto);
Jim Shannon;
David Simpson - creationist (I'm guessing 'young earth') and supporter of homeopathy;
Gregory Campbell - supports death penalty.
(The young earth creationist Mervyn Storey is not an MP. Nor is William McCrae.)


This sorry episode is of course yet another example of things which would have been avoided had not 17 million ignorant or prejudiced people voted for 'Brexit' last June.
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:13 pm

Waiting for the troll from afar to attack this thread. You know who you are :)
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:07 pm

https://paulbraterman.wordpress.com/201 ... sectarian/
More available here. Apparently the DUP are known as 'tough' negotiators - though I hope not 'bloody difficult women and men'.
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby Paul Braterman » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:17 pm

Thanks Ashley for the link to my post. I give extensive background on the MPs, full details of Caleb, summary of its report on the Ulster museum (shock at seeing things labelled millions of years old!), and links to sources in each case. Some of it quite funny; but stupid they are not.
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby Mountkeen » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:00 am

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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby cathy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:39 pm

Mountkeen and Ashley. Hard to imagine a more stupid, egotistical politician than Teresa May isn't it. First she gets the job of prime minister governing what appears to be a country deeply divided over Brexshit and with the nigh on impossible task of delivering a crock of shite. All she had to do was be honest. Say the numbers showed the country was divided and about the fact Brexshit was not going to be great and a lot of lies had been told. Job done - whatever happened she'd have appeased the remainers a bit by acknowledging them and set realistic expectations for the leavers. She'd have been laughing. Instead she comes on gobbing off about the will of the people, kicking the EUs ass and how we'd walk away cos we could always trade with Narnia. So she alienates all the remainers and sets ridiculously unrealistic expectations for the leavers. Duh.

Then with 3 years to run as leader with a majority, before the most important negotiations that she hasn't prepared for, she calls an election. She thinks nobody will notice it's because she's so far ahead in the polls but they do. She thinks nobody will notice she only answers questions by saying strong and stable but they do. She thinks her press protection racket's hatchet job on JC will be fine but seems to have missed that most people are fed up with nasty and the younger generation have been educated to notice and dislike mindless bullying. And she seems terrified (and rightly so) of going into debate with JC and the rest. And she sets out to court the small UKIP vote

Then she says she'll reintroduce fox hunting. Something only a minority of people want and a majority are actively against. And even those who are indifferent would say, Brexshit, NHS in crisis, education in crisis, economy in crisis and you'd want to waste time on whether lord Snotbury, posh git and his five mates can hunt foxes. Really?

Then she loses her majority. Five minutes critical thinking would tell her that Brexshit and austerity were to blame and she'd lost the centre ground. Less than five minutes would show she'd lost to a relative left winger and that he'd won it by giving hope to the younger generation and that he'd been a remainer tactical choice. So what does she do? Risks 25 years of peace negotiations to court the right wing DUP whose ideas most young people and the centre, centre right, centre left and left find repugnant. The will of the people was hung parliament NOT collaboration with the batshit crazies.

Now Major is warning her. The economy is hitting its Brexshit cash. And Sinn Fein appear to be toddling over to Westminster to neutralise the DUP vote she's sold he'd soul to win. So how thick is this woman. And will the Tories be stupid enough to commit total suicide by replacing her with Boris?

So I'm interested to see what the DUP can wring out of this moronic idiot. Nothing would surprise me not even creationism back on the agenda.
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:34 pm

Did you mean "Brexshit crash" eg today's inflation figures?

If and when liar Boris - or liar Davis or even the more sensible Rudd - takes over we will be within our rights to demand another election immediately as they would have NO MANDATE AT ALL. Which is why the Tories want to delay that for as long as possible - till they either think they are popular again or it's getting close to 2022.

(Some speculation that the appalling Hill and clueless Timothy, or possibly David Davis, persuaded May to plunge us into a snap election - and blame Opposition MPs for making one necessary. And there was I thinking she had a revelation whilst walking in Snowdonia.)
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby Mountkeen » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:58 am

Cathy and Ashley

Indeed, one has to wonder how the UK - a stable, prosperous parliamentary democracy, granted a unique set of opt-outs with the largest trading bloc in the world including on the single currency and travel- throws all this up in the air on the basis of an entirely unnecessary referendum - that referendum undertaken to settle an internal Tory Party power struggle and at the behest of a handful of right-wing newspaper proprietors and because the Tories were running scared of small-minded, bigoted xenophobes in UKIP.

That the vote in that referendum was decided by a margin not normally wide enough to change the constitution of the average golf club speaks volumes about the hubris of Cameron on the one hand and the dishonesty of the Leave campaign and the likes of Johnson, Gove, Davis, Fox etc.

Then with Cameron having run away, why did the Tories rush to choose an incredibly ill-equipped successor? Why did May - a "remainer" herself not seek to unite the divided nation rather than opt for the harshest of all Brexshit positions? Why did she call an election AFTER rather than before triggering Article 50 thereby denying the country a final say on its destiny.

And now the Tories are talking about sharing power with a group of religious bigots who repress human rights and are apologists for terrorism.

The UK is in danger of looking like a first world failed state.
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby Paul Braterman » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:46 pm

tories 317 seats. With DUP 327, still a majority. Remaining, out of 649 (not counting Speaker) 322. Or if Sinn Fein continue to absent themselves, 315. 3 or with Sinn Fein absent 7 floorcrossers and she's out. [Numbers corrected 16 June]

Corbyn's arithmetic is ofc worse, but we know who's better placed for another snap election. Time for all good menand women to get a registration drive going
Last edited by Paul Braterman on Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:35 pm

Just checked. The newly elected Labour MP who now represents the area around Grenfell Tower in Kensington is the one who won by literally just 20 votes when the final constituency result was announced late last Friday evening.

This overnight fire inferno has been an utterly unimaginable tragedy for so many.
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Re: DUP - Tory pact

Postby Mountkeen » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:43 am

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Re: DUP - Tory pact?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:23 pm

These talks certainly seem to be dragging on, despite a Queen's (short) Speech being due on 21 June.

Should they fail there will probably have to be yet another imminent election. Should the result of that produce no majority, maybe we will have to have a government of national unity.

I would be astonished if they do fail but the DUP are probably pressing for massive investment in NI (and not only in unionist areas).

What an utter mess the UK and the planet is in.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:40 am

John Prescott tweet of 21 June, referring to Boris Johnson's performance on Radio 4's PM with Eddie Mair. (No punches were thrown however.) Main BBC bulletins apparently ignored it (understandable given all the other news) but the 'car crash' was carried on Newsnight:

"THE worst interview by a politician EVER. I expect @BBCNews & @itvnews will cover it & it'll be in every newspaper".

Boris appeared not to have a clue what certain policies in the Queen's Speech are attempting to achieve. It became like a certain Two Ronnies sketch.


ADDENDUM: it's a 10 minute encounter starting at 26 minutes here; I just listened to it in full:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tvjfq
Prescott might be slightly over-egging it, but the interviewer did a very good job of showing that Theresa May is full of hot air and that Boris can only do soundbites and not detail or substance (we already knew but it's helpful to have it confirmed again)
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