WIngnuts behind creationism

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WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:31 pm

I've just been checking out "Britain First", the hard right wing "successor" to the BNP. It's the one advocating hanging politicians and others it doesn't agree with.

Seems that the outfit was set up up a creationist ex-pastor living in Northern Ireland - one James Dowson. He's also in the hardline anti-arbotion movement. Apparently he thinks it OK to kill adults because of their politics but not newly fertilised eggs. The man also seems to be mixed up in hardline Protestant politics in Northern Ireland. Before setting up "Britain First" he was a long time and top honcho in the BNP.

As far as I can make out, he stepped aside from "Britain First" a year of so ago.

[Edit: humm....it appears that I have come across James Dowson before - see this report which I recall from way back: http://barthsnotes.com/2006/03/13/far-r ... ary-maker/ }
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:12 am

I raised concerns about this group several years ago Roger:

http://www.forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewto ... f=1&t=3262
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby jon_12091 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:18 am

IIRC I read something fairly recently that suggested that the group had effectively schismed itself to death in the manner of many far fringe political groups.
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:23 pm

Tuesday evening. 9.00 pm BBC Three "We want our country back". A documentary on Britain First. Should be interesting.

Also, tomorrow evening at 9.00pm on BBC Three "Is Britain racist".
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby cathy » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:45 pm

I disagree with Roger about it being a religious thing but they are thick. Worrying for Muslim friends. A lot of people are getting wise to Britain first posts on Facebook.

This has been doing the rounds for people to take the p out of. The original interview is it's lifted from is cringeworthy. It'll give you a much needed laugh Peter. Oh and he does actually say 'they've got Muslamic ray guns' in the original interview.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:38 pm

cathy wrote:. Oh and he does actually say 'they've got Muslamic ray guns' in the original interview.
Apparently not, actually. I was intrigued and looked up these fearsome theocratic weapons. It turns out that the theocrats - and probably creationists - were his interlocutor's employers: the Iranian state owners of Press TV (the station beloved of Gorgeous George Galloway). They wouldn't, of course, be interested in correcting a misquotation of that gormless yoof.
The clip was posted at the Lancaster Unity blog. A number of posters in the comments section made fun of the individual's slurred speech, in particular the fact that, when he said "rape gangs", he sounded a bit like he was saying "ray guns".[1]
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Muslamic_ray_guns
Probably worth submitting to Snopes. :-)
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Roger Stanyard » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:Tuesday evening. 9.00 pm BBC Three "We want our country back". A documentary on Britain First. Should be interesting.

Also, tomorrow evening at 9.00pm on BBC Three "Is Britain racist".


I watched the programme tonight on iPlayer, Concluded that Britain First is a tiny group of perhaps 100 or so white, seriously inarticulate, working class disenfranchised males. It looks to be irrelevant.

Still the US Republican Party is increasingly the party of white, seriously inarticulate, working class disenfranchised males so there might be cause to worry (not least because so many own guns).
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:21 pm

It seemed to focus very much on their deputy leader Jayda Fransen (she has a law degree apparently). Numbers do seem pretty low, as you say Roger.

No mention of James Dowson or the Northern Ireland connection.

Mainland UK seems increasingly right wing and pretty much racist (halfway through the other documentary). Much of the same old racist crap I come across on Facebook or what I hear on Talkback.

Mainstream politics seems increasingly polarised as well, judging from what I've heard at the Tory party conference this week.
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:14 am

Peter Henderson wrote:It seemed to focus very much on their deputy leader Jayda Fransen (she has a law degree apparently). Numbers do seem pretty low, as you say Roger.

No mention of James Dowson or the Northern Ireland connection.

Mainland UK seems increasingly right wing and pretty much racist (halfway through the other documentary). Much of the same old racist crap I come across on Facebook or what I hear on Talkback.

Mainstream politics seems increasingly polarised as well, judging from what I've heard at the Tory party conference this week.


There are a lot of peole really peed off with the lack of jobs or low pay in the UK. We really haven't pulled out of the "permament recession".

However, Britain First is really just another splinter group of the hard rights, picking up tghe pieces after the collapse of the BNP and the shambles of the EDL.

Jayda Fransen is an enigma. She's artioulate and well educated and looks compeletely put of place amongst the undeducated half-wits of Britian First, including Palu Golding. He's just another street thung . Accdoording to Hope not Hate, Johnny Adair, was until recently chief bodyguard to Paul Golding. Adair is a monster; not only is he a former terrorist innvoled in the deaths of around 40 people (many of them "Prods") but also ran much of the drugs trade in Northern Ireland (as well as protection rackets).

The BBC programe was actually quite sympathetic towards Fransen; it looks clear that in her early teens she was traumatised; my guess was that she was sexually abused in the home or suffered from other physical violence. Having permamently ran away from home at 14, she eventually managed to get a law degree (no mean achievement under the circumstances). She also appears to be genueinly regligious, a beieving Catholic - maybe that accounts for Dowson splitting with Britain First. Also reading between the lines, I guess she is also the "brains" behind Britain First, effectively its de facto leader.
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Peter Henderson » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:36 pm

Indeed, that's how Jayda Fransen was very much portrayed Roger.

I'd forgotten about "mad dog" Johnny Adair. What really sticks in my mind is Johnny Adair meeting with the then secretary of state for NI Mo Mowlam in the maze Prison when he was still inside, during her efforts to secure the so called "peace process".

I'm not sure Jayda Fransen being a Catholic would have been the reason for Dowson leaving Britain First, as hard line Protestant evangelicals are quite happy to co operate with devout Catholics on issues such as gay marriage and especially abortion.

The Wikipedia entry on Britain First (which is now very extensive) states Dowson was unhappy with the mosque invasions which he felt were counter productive.
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:22 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:The Wikipedia entry on Britain First (which is now very extensive) states Dowson was unhappy with the mosque invasions which he felt were counter productive.



You're probably right but I wouldn't put anything past Dowson. Seems that he pulled out of Britian First because there was no money in it for him 9always follow the money to understand what's happening). Dowson seems to have bankrolled Britian First in return for be its agent to collect membership dues (He had prepviously run the BNP call centre, which was based in Northern Ireland). Presumaby he figured out that invading Mosques would be bad for his new business line with Britian First; there would not be much in it for him if, as it now looks likely, Britain First only has a hundred or so members, none of them with the wits or earning power of a flea.
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:29 am

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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby cathy » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:18 am

Interesting posts. I'd guess there was somebody with brains co-ordinations Britain First because a lot of people initially posted their stuff on my Facebook page. And a lot if it was honey trap stuff like animal cruelty or treatment of the poor. If I hadn't heard Peter mention their name on here last year some time I'd have been sucked in by it because there was nothing initially racist or islamophobic about some of it. My friend for example posted a Britain First thing about leaving dogs in cars. Weird with no indication of what they really were. She was horrified to hear. This is Another Angry Voice on their tactics.

.
Britain First use populist infographics to dupe unsuspecting people into following their hate group. In between Islamophobic rants and immigration lies the Britain First admins intersperse images that the majority of people agree with (infographics decrying animal cruelty, anti-paedophilia memes, support our troops/football team memes, don't leave dogs in hot cars memes ...) so that ordinary people get hooked in to following their page.

A lot of people end up following the page because they saw one of these populist "honey trap" images, without even realising that the page that produced them is an extreme-right hate group.


Some of their other posts that were posted by friends took the form of fake warnings or requests for help that most people share. Things like 'This little girl has gone missing - we saw her get into a car with two Muslm men' or 'warning my wife was stopped by somebody in distress who then tried to kidnap her she managed to take a photo of him' and surprise surprise he'd be Muslim (pictures all easily traced to unrelated images). And of course there was the Lee Rigby scandal which is very useful to use when people post any of their 'support out troops stuff'


http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insi ... lding-3617

Actually I'm really grateful to Peter for the warning otherwise I'd have been sharing their early bs. And I made sure everyone that posted anything from them knew what they really were.

I'm interested in what Dowson says about storming into mosques and the recognitions that a) most Muslims are not extremists and are as worried as the rest of us about the risks to their children of radicalisation and b) it's politically stupid because what does it achieve other than alienating someone on the same side. I'd add c) people have the right to worship in peace as long as they are not abusing anyone's human rights nor preaching hate. On that I agree with him.

But I'd also think it needs pointing out that whilst Britain First are so called Christian fundamentalists and racist similar mosque invasions are carried out in the name of atheism by people who are lauded by Dawkins and secular groups as heros for doing so! That bullying tactic and abuse of rights is supported by a lot of people who'd be horrified to be linked to Britain First but think it's ok when 'secularists' do it. This isn't a religious thing it's an extremists half wit thing.
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:54 pm

cathy wrote:But I'd also think it needs pointing out that whilst Britain First are so called Christian fundamentalists and racist similar mosque invasions are carried out in the name of atheism by people who are lauded by Dawkins and secular groups as heros for doing so!
Wow! I know you're not keen on Dawkins but I think that needs evidence, Or is it just another emanation from Facebook or Twitter?
PS: I really should issue a moderator's warning about going off topic and getting political but i can't resist chipping in!
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Re: WIngnuts behind creationism

Postby cathy » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:24 pm

Brian that's a long post you're requesting. And dull. And half the stuff I've read is old. And there is a lot of background to cover which is well off topic.

Firstly there is Dawkins uncritical support for the mosque invaders of Femen. And his, and other secularists, support for one of their outspoken members Maryam Namazie.

He's oft refers to them as heroes but their invading mosques behaviour is no different to that of the EDL tho their motives are just to get their tits out for the lads. Their modus operandi is to run through mosques topless shrieking. Only in nice safe Europe of course. I would admire them for the same act in Tehran or Helmond.

Though they do also do a nice soft porn show inserting crucifixes into their bottoms in St Peters square.

Now don't get me wrong Brian I've nothing against Femen getting their tits out for the lads as long as a) they are honest that that's what they are doing and don't pretend its a feminist protest. That's an insult to those of us who've spent years trying to be seen for what we do and say not how we look. To be taken seriously not leered at. Femen @@@@ on all our efforts there.

Secondly and far more far more relevant to this is that b) they respect the rights of others not to see them. They confine their tit waving to the clubs of Ibiza or Shagaluf where people want to see them or to photo shoots for lads mags. Not private places of worship and religious (or any) tourist attractions.

I'm not going to give their induvidial acts the oxygen of publicity but this article should give most of the detail you can use to check
http://theaerogram.com/no-means-no-feme ... lim-women/

I can't find all of Dawkins specific tweets but he has on several occasions lauded Femen as heroes. And they used to feature regularly on his forum as heroes. This is fairly typical.

.
1 Apr 2013
Richard Dawkins ‏@RichardDawkins
If I had breasts, I'd bare them in solidarity with Amina http://bit.ly/YygbV5 Those women who are doing so are heroes. Support them.


Though what I'd really love to find is one where he applauds then after they'd run through a European mosque. He tweets such a lot of nonsense it's difficult to find things.

All the more amusing when Amina said she hated Femen and what they were doing.

As this response to one tweet shows.

.
ﺻﺒﻴﺤﺔ ﻣﺤﻤﻮﺩ
@SabihaMahmoud
“Only if Femen and Richard Dawkins would come to rescue us from our oppressive men and religion” said NO muslim woman ever! #muslimahpride


This piece details their racism and mentions Dawkins support for them - but only half way down.

https://overland.org.au/2013/06/sextrem ... -of-femen/

Then of course there is their spokesperson who is a darling of the secularists and another hero of Dawkins Maryam Namazie. Featured here calling the British police fascist bullies for doing their job at the security nightmare that was the Olympics.

https://richarddawkins.net/2012/08/brit ... ice-proud/

Over the top nutter!! Yep but a darling to the secularists.

I haven't detailed Dawkins support for the far right EDL offshoot that invaded Edinburgh mosque. From the racists horses mouth here because it details his actual tweets

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/06/2 ... -a-mosque/

And more detailed analysis of reality here.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/godlessness ... al-mosque/

Now only an idiot would not have seen the action as that of a far right group. Whatever else he is Dawkins is not an idiot.
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