Alice Roberts weighs in.

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Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:18 pm

From today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... ce-roberts

Teaching pupils about creationism in science lessons is "indoctrination", according to Professor Alice Roberts. The TV presenter and new president of the Association for Science Education called for new laws banning all schools, including those in the private sector, from teaching the topic alongside evolution.

In an interview with the Times Educational Supplement (TES), Prof Roberts, who has presented a number of BBC programmes including The Incredible Human Journey and Origins of Us, said: "There should be regulation that prevents all schools, not just state schools, from teaching creationism because it is indoctrination, it is planting ideas into children's heads. We should be teaching children to be much more open-minded.

"People who believe in creationism say that by teaching evolution you are indoctrinating them with science, but I just don't agree with that. Science is about questioning things. It's about teaching people to say, 'I don't believe it until we have very strong evidence'."


To which the creationists have replied:

A spokeswoman said: "All independent schools are independent of government but must meet legal standards that we set for the spiritual, moral, social and cultural development of pupils. They are inspected by either Ofsted or an Ofsted-assessed inspectorate.

"There is no question of state-funded schools ever being allowed to teach creationism. But independent religious schools are entitled to teach their religion's world view. Only countries like North Korea ban the teaching of religion in schools."
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:58 pm

Beat me to it Peter. Here's the original TES article

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6392583
www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6392583

The article was responded to by our old friends at he CST. Graham Coyle, who came out with all the usual irritating bullshit. We teach evolution alongside creationism, it's not indoctrination, inflammatory language to say so. Of course his killer line, given CST inspect themselves :evil: was that existing inspection should be sufficient to ensure schools are not extremist. What I really loved NOT was the comment that curtailing creationism was dangerous.

The other comments against the article were from Marantha scool and user of ACE.

Still at least someone is now, at least, shining a bigger light on CST and creationist bullshit schools. Though how you can legislate against private schools? BUT they have had to take on board other legislation haven't they. Remember Sylvs thesis and their fight against bans on corporal punishment? So it could be done and should be done.
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:20 pm

Ooh quite pleasingly the tes article seems to have not only reached the Guardian but also the Telegraph, Times, Huffington post and some other publications.

Perhaps at long last the poor wee kids whose lives are diminished by being denied a realistic education by being dumped in CST schools may also get protection.
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:01 pm

The ACE curriculum in particular appears not only to outdo Ken Ham for its nonsense but also appears to stifle critical thinking amongst the students by teaching them individually rather than as a group. Sounds very much like indoctrination.
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Couple of letters in TES about last weeks article. Both from the pro creationism side. Though charitably one could be from someone who thinks it meant banning the creation story full stop. I guess that because to author says she also accepts evolution.
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6395624

However I'm in no doubt about the other. From a Rev Dr Bruce K Gardner in Aberdeen.
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6395625

Anyone heard of him? Google search shows he signed the anti gay marriage petition.
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:09 pm

cathy wrote:However I'm in no doubt about the other. From a Rev Dr Bruce K Gardner in Aberdeen.
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6395625

Anyone heard of him? Google search shows he signed the anti gay marriage petition.
Nor can I find anything relevant. He seems to be, though,
The Rev. Dr. Bruce K. Gardner, Former Honorary Research Fellow in Hebrew and Semitic Languages, Aberdeen University, Scotland
- a reviewer of a book on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Creating-Space-Between-Peshat-Derash/dp/1602801762
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:48 am

Sensible letter replying to the nonsense ones last week
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6397980

There was also an interesting article on American creationism that doesn't seem to be available online and which disappeared off to the RE dept before got a chance to read it properly. Will have to try and locate on Monday.

Meanwhile it looks like David J Tyler and some other creationists have waded in to add overlong comments under the original TES article,
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6392583
unaware that, apart from me, most folk will have moved on. Haven't had time to respond to Tyler's nonsense but a brief scan shows it to be the usual tiresome nonsense. The good news is he seems to be writing the inane drivel to the DfE which can only serve to make them aware not only of the threat of the creationists in this country but also how insane they are.

I'm afraid I've lost all patience with their nonsense, and in the process the ability to be polite about them any more.

Good old Alice for wading in. Someone with credibility and no obvious axe to grind or previous agendas. :)
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:36 pm

Ah finally found the article about US creationism and religion and it's a strange one. Arguing in part that the US obsession with separation of church and state is somehow behind their reluctance to teach evolution, because over there evolution is seen as anti religion. The refs to creationism are quite a way down the article. Not sure what to make of it, be interested to see what others make of it. I can't help feeling that religious loonies attempts to present evolution as atheism is working over there.
www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6398013

Which I guess makes our non obsession with avoiding religion at any cost a good protection against creationism? Or not? Certainly our RE dept have decided it's an interesting article, hence it's disappearance from the staff room. They felt they could safely nick any part of TES that wasn't the jobs pages ha ha. They are sacrosanct in these heady academy days. Along with pictures of Gove which have to be left to be defaced.
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:44 pm

I bet you could date the likes of Tyler's comment by the code words they use. Today it's "empirical science"compared with their hated "historical science". There's an implication of "Controversy"and a bit of "design". This time misunderstanding information theory has gone, along with misrepresenting thermodynamics and "just a theory". However they phrase it, it's all one big yawn. You'd think though that having the courage of their convictions and citing the Bible would be de rigueur but not so.
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:07 pm

cathy wrote: Not sure what to make of it, be interested to see what others make of it. I can't help feeling that religious loonies attempts to present evolution as atheism is working over there.
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6398013
I'd say it was just a preparatory stab at her thesis, if that's anything to do with educational politics or teaching religion. Enlightening the Limeys about the strange contradiction of the American curtain between massive religiosity and educational secularism. It would have made more sense if she'd simultaneously enlightened the Yanks about the British contradiction whereby we have a State Religion that is observed largely in the breach. :-)
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:17 pm

This has just appeared - Don Batten's religious bigotry and indignation are in full flow.
http://creation.com/faithless-education
It does my head in just READING his twisting of reality and endless science denial and trumpeting of past CMI 'refutations' of naughty people like Alan.
I do NOT feel like 'pardoning' Dr Batten. (Perhaps in part because of how he reacted to one of my communications to CMI around three years ago.)
Though I also counted 11 lies.

And I imagine CMI will be writing about Dr Roberts before long...
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Re: Re:

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:08 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:This has just appeared - Don Batten's religious bigotry and indignation are in full flow.
http://creation.com/faithless-education
It does my head in just READING his twisting of reality and endless science denial and trumpeting of past CMI 'refutations' of naughty people like Alan.
I do NOT feel like 'pardoning' Dr Batten. (Perhaps in part because of how he reacted to one of my communications to CMI around three years ago.)
Though I also counted 11 lies.

And I imagine CMI will be writing about Dr Roberts before long...


This is really arrogant Ashley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvhMnIqeJnw

(1) Our education system is run mainly by fools.

(2) Our science textbooks are written mainly by fools and contain foolish things.

According to Dr. Batten.

I dunno.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:43 am

Peter - he appears to be one of the more angry YECs (some appear a little more 'chilled').
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:56 am

bet you could date the likes of Tyler's comment by the code words they use. Today it's "empirical science"compared with their hated "historical science". There's an implication of "Controversy"and a bit of "design". This time misunderstanding information theory has gone, along with misrepresenting thermodynamics and "just a theory". However they phrase it, it's all one big yawn. You'd think though that having the courage of their convictions and citing the Bible would be de rigueur but not so.

I know, when I saw dangerous Dave's name my heart sank. All the things that have been said to him in previous places - ignored. Back to making the same arguments and him not listening. I nearly responded than realised I couldn't be bothered and on that particular forum in did not matter. Apart from the first letter the week after, I doubt any of the others are teachers in the relevant areas. Dave teaches textiles after all, which even CST would find difficult to teach from a creationist view. Gods woolly sheep specially designed to keep us warm after the fall, or look how intelligently designed kevlar is?

On a public forum maybe, but most teachers will have moved on and it looks like the creationists have moved in to dominate the forum thread.

I know where I'd be targetting if I were them, but given I'm not sure how dangerous Dave found out about the ariticle and knowing outraged Paul had even counted my exclamation marks, I won't say so. ha ha.
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Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:59 am

Our education system is run mainly by fools.


Well yes that is true. Gove is an idiot of mammoth proportions that nearly gave them a way into schools big time and is slowly wrecking education which will only be to the gain of creationist loony tunes in the end. They may not get to teach creationism but when nobody is taught at all, it'll be far easier to indoctrinate the ignorant masses that Gove is planning.

This has just appeared - Don Batten's religious bigotry and indignation are in full flow.
http://creation.com/faithless-education

:evil: :evil: Bloody depressing crap. Why does nobody ask him why evolution is the tool of atheists and not gravity. After all, it prevents us all floating off to heaven.
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