Is Bill Nye wise ????????

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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Peter Henderson » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:52 am

Danny Faulkner's answer to Bill Nye ? A miracle:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... me-problem

Since my modest proposal appeals to a miracle, there may be no physical predictions and hence nothing that we can test


That just about says it all.
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:31 am

Oh dear, what a tangled web we weave!
However, the stars could not have fulfilled their God ordained functions when Adam first saw them after Day Six. These functions include being used to mark seasons and the passage of time (we still do this today with the day, month, and year). The passage of the year and the seasons are reckoned by how the sun appears to move against the background stars as the earth orbits the sun. Absent these background stars, it would not be possible to determine the passage of the year and of the seasons.
Where does he live, on the equator? Have they not had snow in Syria? Is his theology right, that the seasons were purely nominal, there being a constant temperature before the fall? Is he right, misunderstanding, or making things up?
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:43 am

And even more tangled:
Perhaps. Consider light leaving a distant star shortly after its formation on Day Four. In my view the intervening space was stretched to bring the light rapidly to earth.
He's suggesting that Adam could see all the visible (and by implication that included visible by telescope) because a miraculous "stretching" of space brought their light nearer. Leaving aside that it would surely have involved a contraction of space, it would surely mean that all the stars looked nearer too. Adam would have been blinded. Not only that, it would have brought their heat nearer. Maybe he is right, there was indeed a constant temperature - a roasting one. Hell in Eden!
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:35 pm

Actually, it seems poor old Nye lost. According to Pravda.ru, anyway!
I won't go into the usual rubbish, the author details of this very poor paper say it all.
The author, Babu G. Ranganathan, has his bachelor's degree with concentrations in theology and biology and has been recognized for his writings on religion and science in the 24th edition of Marquis "Who's Who in The East."
The list mentioned is, of course, of the kind where entries are easily acquired. Makes you wonder what the Russians are up to, though. Is the man a stooge for the Orthodox church?
http://english.pravda.ru/science/mysteries/26-02-2014/126942-scientific_creationism_bill_nye-0/
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:52 pm

Have tried to comment here, as I've done in the past, but for reasons unknown have been placed in an 'awaiting approval' queue.
http://www.skepticblog.org/2014/02/26/o ... ent-112154
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:01 am

Brian Jordan wrote:Actually, it seems poor old Nye lost. According to Pravda.ru, anyway!
I won't go into the usual rubbish, the author details of this very poor paper say it all.
The author, Babu G. Ranganathan, has his bachelor's degree with concentrations in theology and biology and has been recognized for his writings on religion and science in the 24th edition of Marquis "Who's Who in The East."
The list mentioned is, of course, of the kind where entries are easily acquired. Makes you wonder what the Russians are up to, though. Is the man a stooge for the Orthodox church?
http://english.pravda.ru/science/mysteries/26-02-2014/126942-scientific_creationism_bill_nye-0/


Oh Dear! Ranganathan is a graduate of the Bob Jones University.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:02 pm

Ken Ham is pretty good at one thing - that Bible "them and us" stuff. Christians should never follow 'secularist' agendas. And if they are considering accepting the word of Man (scientists or whoever) on facts or beliefs that cannot be easily supported by the Bible, then they must resist and deny because otherwise they are caving in to secularism (and calling God a 'liar'). Trouble is, many sincere Christians sincerely believe eg that science has revealed from systematic study of the natural world that the universe is billions of years old regardless of an age you might get for it (and humanity) from Bible genealogies. Science is usually right - yet if you call it 'Man's word' and set it against 'God's word' some Christians then feel obliged to reject science (and then hey presto Ken Ham and co offer them 'creation science' as a substitute - which is merely a type of presuppositional apologetics that defends Genesis against secularists).
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Talking of Bob Jones...
Ham's publicity-fest rumbles on. Here a supposed champion of free speech finds the need to lambast critics of thick incompetent design. It says of itself:
The Guardian Liberty Voice has become a virtual university for writers
Would that be Liberty University (aka Falwell's private Lynchburg Baptist College) that it aspires to emulate in Las Vegas?
http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/evolution-vs-intelligent-design-questions-worth-asking/
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Roger Stanyard » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:53 am

Brian Jordan wrote:Talking of Bob Jones...
Ham's publicity-fest rumbles on. Here a supposed champion of free speech finds the need to lambast critics of thick incompetent design. It says of itself:
The Guardian Liberty Voice has become a virtual university for writers
Would that be Liberty University (aka Falwell's private Lynchburg Baptist College) that it aspires to emulate in Las Vegas?
http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/evolution-vs-intelligent-design-questions-worth-asking/


Ben Gaul, the "author" of the article, appears to be totally scientificlly illiterate repeating tired old ID rubbish that has long been shreded to pieces in excrutiating detail. The bloke appears to have never been near any university of any sort.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:44 pm

More whining about Bill Nye the debate-winning Guy (any mistake about either the Bible or YEC dogma by an opponent of the latter is ALWAYS dirty deliberate strawman behaviour and NEVER a simple error - that's the gist of the argument here and it echoes how Ham behaves online):
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... lelinkedin

"First, where does the Bible ever state that just eight people built the Ark? Only eight people were on the Ark and survived the Flood, but this doesn’t mean these were the only people involved in building the structure. Actually, the Bible only mentions Noah as building the Ark (Genesis 6:22; Hebrews 11:7)". You have answered your own silly question Mr Chaffey. There was NO 'strawman' from Nye here - with respect to the BIBLE. However, if the position of AiG is BEYOND what the Bible SAYS, that would suggest that AiG are FRAUDS and in error doctrinally - like all those other Christians they slate.

A pathetic article.
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MORE reality denial and deliberate deceit from AiG

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:40 pm

http://www.answersingenesis.org/store/p ... n=facebook
http://www.answersingenesis.org/store/p ... u=90-4-056 [edit: this is text rather than video]
I am also flagging this nonsense at the Bill Nye Facebook page.

They are not that keen for Christians to watch the Nye-Ham debate in isolation. Christians apparently need to watch Ray Comfort's lying video as well. And an AiG-produced 'discussion guide' to Nye-Ham.

If people watch these as well as the Nye-Ham debate they MIGHT be persuadable that the person who lost on 4 Feb was Nye. At least that is what AiG must desperately be hoping. Losing a debate could be bad for business!

Maybe not that many people will fork out 22 dollars or £13 for all this propaganda.

"There is no debate". Yes indeed. Ham LOST on 4 Feb. He has NO viable scientific model of origins. He purported to offer successful predictions but failed miserably.


FURTHER EDIT. I see the 'discussion guide' is available on its own, and that the pdf version can be ordered online from AiG at a cost of just over £1 I think (based on current dollar-pound conversions). So I have just made an order, and a pdf version has appeared on my computer screen. I will make a further I hope short* post about the contents; I do not believe that quoting from the contents would in any way breach copyright.



* With hindsight, a short post would have been next to useless.
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Answers in Genesis endless post-debate SPIN

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:27 am

The discussion guide contains 20 questions. For each question a link is provided to a past article on the Answers in Genesis website.

(1) Before you watched the debate, had you given much thought to why you believe what you believe about the past, especially origins? How has the debate influenced your thinking in this area?
(2) The creation/evolution debate is often framed as a battle between science and religion. Mr. Ham asserted that it is really a battle between two different philosophical starting points (worldviews). Was Ham’s point persuasive to you? Do you think it was persuasive to those who began the debate on Mr. Nye’s side?
(3) Mr. Nye looks at the world through the “lens” of naturalism and uniformitarianism (everything can be explained by natural processes excluding supernatural explanations). Mr. Ham looks at the world through the “lens” of the Bible (he expects supernatural events but still order in nature). Yet, both men claimed to be looking at the universe through the lens of science. How are the two men using “science” in their arguments? Which position do you agree with and why?
(4) Mr. Ham made a distinction between historical/origins science and observational/operational science. Mr. Nye rejected that distinction. Do you think is this an important distinction to make in discussions about origins? Why or why not?
(5)The laws of logic and nature are eternal and immaterial; that is, they cannot be described in terms of matter, and they are the same everywhere for all time. Mr. Ham offered a challenge to Mr. Nye: “How do you account for the existence of laws of logic and laws of nature in your materialistic worldview?” Did Mr. Nye ever respond to this challenge? How do you account for these things in your personal worldview? How does the Bible account for these laws?
(6) Mr. Ham made the assertion that every Christian doctrine is either directly or indirectly based on the truths recorded in Genesis. One of those key doctrines is the connection between death and sin. How does the Bible’s account of origins explain the entrance of death, disease, and bloodshed? How does the evolutionary view of origins explain these things? Are the two views compatible?
(7) Mr. Nye believes the big bang provides a compelling explanation for the origin of the universe nearly 14 billion years ago based on observations in the present. Mr. Ham believes that the Bible describes a supernatural creation event by God around 6,000 years ago. These are radically different explanations. To what authority do you look to decide which of these explanations you will believe? Explain why.
(8) Radiometric dating is supposed to give dates for earth rocks of millions or billions of years, the earth itself being 4.5 billion years old. Mr. Ham introduced the many assumptions that must be accepted to interpret the isotope ratios as ages. How does this explanation relate to the distinction between historical and operational science?
(9) When asked about the origin of matter and consciousness, Mr. Nye acknowledged that he did not have an answer and those things were great mysteries of science. Mr. Ham pointed to the Bible ("There is a book...") as the source of his knowledge about the origin of matter and consciousness. Genesis 1 describes the origin of matter and man's consciousness. Is this a reasonable position for Mr. Ham to argue from? Will this convince people who are "scientifically minded"?
(10) Mr. Ham contrasted the evolutionary "tree of life" with the biblical creationist's "orchard of life". If you trusted the Bible as your authority, which of these is most consistent with the teaching of Genesis? In your understanding, why do evolutionists reject this interpretation of the fossil and genetic record?
(11) "What you believe about your origins will influence your morality." How does this statement play into the discussion of origins in our culture?
(12) Mr. Ham used many different evidences to positively confirm his interpretations, but he kept those explanations firmly rooted in the truths of the Bible. He also argued that the debate was not a battle over evidence, but a battle over the interpretation of the evidence. In light of passages like Luke 16:27–31, Hebrews 4:12, and 1 Corinthians 1:18–25 and 2:13–16, will a pile of evidence necessarily convince someone of their need for the Savior? How should you use the Bible in your arguments?
(13) Can someone be a Christian and believe in evolutionary ideas (big bang, biological common descent, etc.)? What Bible verses would you use to substantiate your position? How does this question relate to the issue of biblical authority?
(14) Mr. Nye claimed repeatedly that teaching biblical creation rather than naturalism and evolutionary ideas will lead to a collapse of our nation’s ability to develop technology and compete in the global economy. Is this a valid concern? How did Mr. Ham deal with this claim? How does this relate to Genesis 1:26–28?
(15) Mr. Ham intentionally included the proclamation of the gospel message of Jesus Christ’s life, death, and Resurrection in his arguments, using the history in the Bible to explain why every human has sinned and is in need of the Savior. Why was this important enough to Mr. Ham that he presented the gospel rather than more evidences to support his position?
(16) Mr. Nye demands that biblical creation be kept out of the science classrooms in public schools since it is religious. Mr. Ham believes that religion IS being taught in the public school science classrooms - the religion of humanism. After hearing the debate and the presentation of the philosophical foundation of naturalistic science, should competing philosophies of science be allowed in the public school classrooms? Would teachers, who are biased by their own beliefs, adequately teach the other position?
(17) Mr. Ham showed how the Bible teaches that we are all one race—the human race. As scientists have studied the genetic makeup of all of the different people groups of the world, they have come to the same conclusion. In this case, the biblical creationists used the Bible to predict that the genetic data would show this to be the case, and the prediction was correct, confirming (not proving) the Bible’s accuracy and authority. How does this truth relate to the need to proclaim the gospel to every person on the planet? What is the connection to the Tower of Babel?
(18) Mr. Nye showed an image of the different "human" skulls that have been found around the world. His suggestion was that all of these creatures were related to humans in their evolutionary ancestry. Can a Christian believe that humans evolved from an ape-like ancestor? If they did, how would this impact the message of Adam being specially created by God and the doctrine of sin?
(19) Mr. Nye repeatedly asserted that Noah could not have built the Ark, that he couldn’t have cared for the animals, that the ship would have fallen apart, and that all the species of animals we see today could not have been produced in the 4,300 years since the Flood. How would you respond to someone who makes similar claims?
(20) How can you use this debate as an opportunity to engage unbelievers in conversations that will lead to sharing the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ?

In fact there was no link for the final question. But the discussion guide does end by providing the link to the page on the AiG website where the Ham-Nye debate can be watched.

And AiG have added some propaganda to that page since the last time I looked at it! They are making EXCUSES for Ken Ham as the memory of the debate itself starts to fade.

"Debate Answers
During the debate Bill Nye presented many statements and asked many questions. Because of the nature of the event, Ken Ham was often not able to respond directly to many of these statements. However, the majority of Nye’s statements and questions have been addressed on our website or by other organizations who teach a young-earth creation. Here is a sampling of articles, videos, audios, books, and other resources. Note: several of these articles are technical in nature."

Unbelief or agnosticism did not win that debate. Science did. And the loser was biblical creationism. ALL AiG got out of it was publicity, a few extra donations by supporters, and a brief gospel presentation. And they are NOT satisfied with just these.

Biblical creationists can ALWAYS be relied upon to re-invent history, evade scientific realities, put up smokescreens and generally try to mislead and coerce Christians about science, worldviews and what they really 'should' think about what science has discovered! Always.

Ken Ham and co hope the debate TOPIC will be quietly forgotten. They want to turn this into "Is Ken Ham biblical, because if he is therefore you must not accept anything Bill Nye says however convincing it might appear - and besides we think we refuted it previously".

If God wrote the Bible and if it is meant to be taken as infallible and inerrant, then God HATES science. Science is regarded like money/mammon - "you cannot serve God and Science". What rot.

Disgusting, if 'biblical', behaviour.

Do I sound sad and angry about all this? (Angry at both any God and at enemies of science and knowledge.)
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:49 am

It reads like an exam paper! Albeit with crib supplied. Is it perahps mainly intended for people who organised group viewings to reassure - and gee-up - their faithful?
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:08 pm

If Ham is still providing "debate answers" a month after the actual debate, is that an acknowledgement Ham lost the debate itself ?
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:53 pm

Yes. But the money's still good.
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