Is Bill Nye wise ????????

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Bill Nye seems a reasonable man

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:53 am

http://debatelive.org/
The debate has just concluded.

I took quite a lot of notes but this is just a brief post (I've read nobody else's thoughts other than the post that precedes this one).

I'm calling it for Bill Nye. Although he claims to be able to explain origins Ken Ham does not have a truly scientific or predictive model.

I noticed five or six blatant lies from Ham (several of which Bill Nye regrettably did not tackle):
- observational science 'confirms' recent creation (he said evidence points to divine intelligence and also listed 'kinds', the flood, one human race, a 'young' universe and the tower of Babel as 'observational science' or 'evidence');
- he twice falsely claimed that 90% of a lengthy list of dating methods 'contradict' billions of years;
- he falsely claimed that he does not say natural laws have changed over time (Nye may have used terminology that Ham thought referred to 'uniformity' whatever that is but Ham and co basically reject uniformitarianism which is what Nye was suggesting eg they invoke 'catastrophic plate tectonics', much faster radioactive decay rates in the past, a much faster speed of light previously and so forth);
- he said he thought Nye had confused species with 'kinds' (families?) but Nye did no such thing;
- he and Faulkner claimed that "nothing in astronomy contradicts a young universe";
- he claimed that Nye would be unable to offer any example of a new biological function over time (Nye was not put on the spot but presumably could have mentioned gene duplication events and the like which might lead to morphological change or said more about the importance of the Lenski experiment).

Not overwhelming but I do think Ham lost ie he could not show that mainstream science about the past should be rejected because he has a 'better' model.

PS Had a quick look here for "Bill Nye was terrible" type comments. Couldn't spot any.
https://www.facebook.com/billnye?filter=2
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:56 am

Ken Ham ate my hamster! Sorry, that should be "crashed my laptop!". It duly started recording, saved about a thousand tiny mp3 files with no sound and crashed after about an hour and a half. Any error messages were lost.
The video is still up, starting with some dreadful croaking music reminiscent of dinosaurs. I think I'll look around for some comments before I try to catch it again.
The site promises a discussion at - I think - 10pm tonight by Ham and Purdon. They're naturally going to flog it for all that it's worth.
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:00 am

From what bit of comment there is on RatSkep so far, Nye was doing quite well. I'll risk crashing my laptop again and have another try.
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Roger Stanyard » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:07 am

Brian Jordan wrote:From what bit of comment there is on RatSkep so far, Nye was doing quite well.


Yes, that seems to fit with other comments on the blogs of PZ Myers and Jerry Coyne.

Alas I haven't seen the video - transmitted too late at night and I am at work today.
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:32 am

If I succeed in capturing it, you're welcome to a copy - dear Ken encourages it! Should be available on YouTube later though and I may end up having to download it from there - I'm trying a second capture programme at the moment and it claims it's only an hour long, which can't be right.
EDIT: maybe I shouldn't bother - PZ has embedded a full video on his blog. I should be able to grab it easily from there but can't test it while my other capture is running.
He says a poll run by Christian Today has Nye winning 91% to 9%. He wonders what Ham's going to do with all those DVDs.
Oh frabjous day!
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:57 am

PZ has a running account of the video. Maybe I don't need to watch it after all as he's done it for me. :-) I'll see how other reports of it go.
Must have a copy for reference though.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/
EDIT:my alternative capture didn't work and grabbing PZ's version just got me the same loads of mp3's. So I'm in need of a copy from somewhere. I don't think I'll be buying a DVD though, unless their surplus turns up at car boot sales for coppers!
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:39 am

I noticed five or six blatant lies from Ham


Ham also referenced the Andrew Snelling/Steve Austin radiometric dating frauds which unfortunately Bill Nye was unaware of but that was understandable.

From what I saw of the debate, Nye came over as far more confident and coherent than Ham. I liked Nye's point about 11 different "kinds" or new species appearing every day if we take what Ham says got of the ark to what we observe in nature in the present day.

I'd say if nothing else it'll get some of that YEC audience thinking at least, surely.

Nye was very wise not to get into "the evolution vs God" debate
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Roger Stanyard » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:08 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:He says a poll run by Christian Today has Nye winning 91% to 9%. He wonders what Ham's going to do with all those DVDs.
Oh frabjous day!


Yer but PZ Myers is encouraging his blog followers to vote in the poll so it could be well skewed.
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:13 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
Brian Jordan wrote:He says a poll run by Christian Today has Nye winning 91% to 9%. He wonders what Ham's going to do with all those DVDs.
Oh frabjous day!


Yer but PZ Myers is encouraging his blog followers to vote in the poll so it could be well skewed.
They may have skewed it since, but he says those were the figures he first saw.
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Roger Stanyard » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:11 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:
Roger Stanyard wrote:
Brian Jordan wrote:He says a poll run by Christian Today has Nye winning 91% to 9%. He wonders what Ham's going to do with all those DVDs.
Oh frabjous day!


Yer but PZ Myers is encouraging his blog followers to vote in the poll so it could be well skewed.
They may have skewed it since, but he says those were the figures he first saw.


Here's an alternative view that Ken Scam won the debate hands down: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ience.html
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby cathy » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:48 pm

He says a poll run by Christian Today has Nye winning 91% to 9%.

And that has got to be the most significant of the polls when it comes down to it. Kens hamsters will never change their views and won't have been listening to anything that will contradict what they already believe. Atheists and sane Christians likewise.

But the waverers and cognitive dissonance mob are the ones that would have benefitted. People like my nice Christian friend attending loony tune, vile creationist church - who needs to be told she is allowed to accept science. The ones that CMI, Paul, Marc et al bully into believing they have to be creationists, or it is 'preferable' that needed this debate and polls like the above.

And of course, hopefully youngsters.

I haven't heard or seen any of it yet, and am not sure I could stomach it? Ashley has a far stronger stomach than me - could I cope without exploding?
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:54 pm

I stand corrected! Apparently it was a score-draw after all: http://thenewcreationism.wordpress.com/ ... ye-debate/

Or then again: http://www.christiantoday.com/article/b ... /35688.htm
(92 % of respondents thought Nye won - or possibly that Ham lost.)
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby cathy » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:06 pm

Ashley I can't find the poll results anywhere. Whether I access Christian today from your link or the PZ Myers one? 92% is hopeful news tho.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:33 pm

cathy wrote:Ashley I can't find the poll results anywhere. Whether I access Christian today from your link or the PZ Myers one? 92% is hopeful news tho.


Cathy
When I went to my last link above I could only actually read the current result AFTER voting myself (guess which way I voted). The vote panel is 'hidden' within the article.

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com ... -analysis/
Coyne's analysis at The New Republic is quite thorough (in fact I only discovered that it was written by him after I finished reading it).


EDIT - THIS should be interesting.
http://creation.com/ham-nye-debate (apparently the CMI website provides many many LYING answers to certain questions posed by Mr Nye; this is a pretty vile article)

FURTHER EDIT: a post debate Nye (short) interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8fPLitlcr8 (slightly sycophantic interviewer!)
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Is Bill Nye wise ????????

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:38 pm

cathy wrote:Ashley I can't find the poll results anywhere. Whether I access Christian today from your link or the PZ Myers one? 92% is hopeful news tho.
Down to 7% for Ham now, for what it's worth. The page is as below but the poll is way down in a small blue box. Also it doesn't always work - voting not at all for me, checking the result got me a poll organisation page when I first tried tonight. It could be buckling under the strain. The number of votes has doubled since I looked this morning.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/bill.nye.vs.ken.ham.debate.live.stream.free.watch.online.creation.vs.evolution.debate.here.start.time/35688.htm
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