This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

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This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:10 pm

That includes dangerous to the survival of Christianity (though it is necessary in order to perpetuate biblical fundamentalism).

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... ic-origins (the LATEST pack of appalling lies and junk science from Answers 'in' Genesis)

Let's COUNT the lies.

(1) "only catastrophic earth movements—a result of the Flood—can explain this string of jewels" (NOT the Flood nor catastrophic 'earth movements' other than volcanic eruptions);
(2) "this charming landscape is a product of catastrophic forces unleashed by Noah’s Flood" (not stated or implied in the Bible even if Noah's Flood happened as described there which it did not);
(3) "if the volcanoes that formed Hawaii’s eight major islands had been formed before or during Noah’s Flood ... so we know the volcanoes must have erupted following the Flood" (if you are a YEC ie a Christian fundamentalist trying to do 'science' starting with the book of Genesis, you are forced to insist that this happened less than 4,300 years ago; no wonder someone at the AiG facebook page is asking AiG "I would dearly like to hear your comments of how the Waimea Canyon may have formed from a biblical/flood perspective");
(4) "the origin of these gems gives us a fascinating window into the incredible tectonic forces that tore apart the planet during the Flood" (ditto what I said at 2);
(5) "the first islands, called the Emperor Seamounts, were small and most never grew large enough to reach the ocean surface" (oh yes they mostly did - and some are flat-topped as Snelling goes on to admit, suggesting that this is 'curious' when it is no such thing if you accept real science);
(6) "these islands formed quickly, over a few years, not “millions of years”" (total bunkum which apparently relies on both 'catastrophic plate tectonics' and enormous/enormously frequent Hawaiian volcanic eruptions all during the past 4,300 years - for which historical records of such events on the planet actually exist);
(7) "the islands quickly become smaller and smaller" (no, slowly - certainly not at the ridiculous speeds demanded by a belief in YEC-ism);
(8) "the Pacific plate ... has been moving northwestward. As the plate moved over the essentially stationary Hawaiian mantle plume, the rising molten rock built a series of seamounts and islands in quick succession" (ditto my comments at 7);
(9) "these measure radiometric decay over months and years, not “millions of years (Ma)”" (a total falsehood and wishful thinking, resulting from adopting and then sticking rigidly to a 'biblical worldview' that cannot cope with scientific evidence and scientific reality so is obliged to tell lies about the past that involve a kind of special pleading about all sorts of things being vastly 'speeded up' that uniformitarianism does not require);
(10) "incorrectly dated by the faulty radiometric method at some 81 million years ago" (YECs cannot show this despite years of trying and Snelling is forced to accept the pattern of relative ages confirmed by radiometric dating but not hinted at anywhere in the Bible);
(11) "however, if the plate motion had been uniformly slow at today’s rate, all the volcanic islands should have been of similar sizes" (garbage which assumes a constant pattern over time of volcanic eruptions from/over the hot spot ever since the first islands formed AND ignores the so-called 'quick' erosion that YECs are forced to tell people happened in the past);
(12) "creation geologists do not dispute that plate tectonics has occurred. However, they believe substantial evidence confirms that it occurred catastrophically during the Flood. Furthermore, as the Flood was waning, the plate motions decelerated from tens of feet (meters) per second to their current snail’s pace of only an inch or two (mere centimeters) per year" (this nonsense and self-deception for Jesus ignores the fact that Snelling has already informed us that the islands were formed AFTER the Flood, NOT before or during it eg he wrote "we know the volcanoes must have erupted following the Flood" - so unless he, a PhD scientist, used 'loose' wording he CANNOT mean that the 'catastrophic' eruptions only managed to reach the sea surface after the Flood; WHY do these people bother digging holes for themselves by posting self-contradictory and generally anti-scientific nonsense);
(13) "as the plates slowed, there would have been more time for the upwelling mantle “hot spot” to send up lavas, even if the eruptions decreased. Thus the island of Hawaii is much larger than the other islands" (but Snelling has just informed us that plate movements decelerated to their present pace while the Flood he believes in was WANING - BEFORE any Hawaiian islands formed according to his 'science');
(14) "the plate was moving so rapidly when the Emperor chain was being formed that few of the volcanoes had time to grow big enough to breach the ocean surface" (yes, 'tens of feet' every second - if you are a delusional science-hating YEC fantasist; no wonder Snelling claims most/all of those seamounts 'failed' to reach the sea surface);
(15) "excess argon rises with the lavas from beneath the earth’s crust, contaminating them so that they yield excessively old dates. This volcanic argon gas does not arise from radioactive decay of the potassium in the rocks, but instead it is trapped in the basalts, making them “read” older. Furthermore, potassium-argon dates of volcanic rocks on seamounts can increase with depth underwater, regardless of actual age" (if all that is the truth and not wild fantasy or deliberate lies, get it published in a peer-reviewed science journal Dr Snelling PhD);
(16) "but creation research has demonstrated that all the decay rates were grossly accelerated in the recent past, during the global Flood cataclysm" (all that has been demonstrated is that YEC scientific claims about the past are gross lies and gross fantasies that are refuted by known facts - as even fellow Christians wisely admit);
(17) "this finding indicates that, just as plates accelerated during the Flood and then decelerated, so radioactive decay rates accelerated, apparently in lockstep, and then decelerated" (a deliberate lie to 'prop up' an earlier deliberate YEC lie Dr Snelling).

17 reasons why this particular so-called 'biblical worldview' will turn honest and informed people AWAY from Christianity.
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:37 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:00 am

Also 17 reasons why young Earth creationism should not enter school science classrooms (even in private Christian schools in my opinion).

This - also written by a Christian based in America but one who accepts scientific reality - is worth reading:

http://www.greatesthoaxonearth.blogspot ... rgent.html

I'll also email (not to 'Washington Irving' as I have no email address for him so will flag the thread under his recent blogpost) as the formation of the Hawaiian islands was discussed at various Amazon.com reviews of 'The Greatest Hoax on Earth' and some of those posting there come here infrequently.
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:27 am

Comments by non-creationist Christian 'Dr Tertius' (I think my email has messed up his punctuation but you should get the drift):


"YEC leaders are, most of all, narcissistic. ?When I began to
understand the massive quantities of evidence which affirmed millions
of years (and debunked thousands of years), I had a choice: ?reject the
work of millions of scientists OR reject my own Biblical hermeneutics. ?
I re-examined the Biblical text and challenged all of my beliefs along
with every sentence of the Hebrew text to see if I was on solid ground.
?I soon realized that I had adopted many TRADITIONS over and above what
the Biblical text actually stated. ?So, fundamentally, my trek was that
of every scholar: ?question my conclusions and re-examine all of the
evidence. ?
YECs are working hard to preserve TRADITIONS, not scripture. ?The
Biblical text itself has no conflicts with modern science. ?(If there
were any conflicts, I should have found them by now. ?Of course, if one
relies solely on the English Bible text, one is depending upon
TRADITIONAL western Bible translation decisions. ?And that is why all
Biblical scholars work from the original Hebrew. ?We do all that we can
to avoid being influenced by tradition.)
Prof T.
{You can post the above to that forum if you wish.}"
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:28 am

My response:


"I'll add your comment to the thread and my comments below as well.

The reason why YEC ideologues deny millions of years (as well as
abiogenesis and molecules to Man evolution even if guided by God) is
not because it's specifically denied in the Bible but because it messes
up their Bible theology eg that the 'creation' was originally 'very
good', without any physical death, 'unfallen' and 'uncursed' or that
humans (our species) are different from other species because we were
created in God's 'image' unlike them (thus, since the Bible says
nothing about such, YECs pretend that all extinct Homo or
Australopithecus species were either 'fully' human or were mere
'apes'). But of course in attacking science they frequently ADD
conclusions beyond what scripture actually states or implies - look at
all that stuff by Snelling about radioactive decay rates during the
Flood. That is pure eisegesis - which tries to make the Bible (or a
'biblical worldview') a WEAPON against modern science.

Robert Adair, probably the worst YEC I've yet encountered on Amazon.
com (see his renewed comments dated 29 Dec and attacking Christine
Janis under the Stephen Marley review if you are interested and have
the time), ducked a challenge to deal with that Irving Washington*
blogpost - see my post dated 1 December under the John Heininger
review."


* I meant Washington Irving (not his real name).
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:35 am

Just amended my wording at (12) in the first post - it turns out on re-reading that I was being too generous to Snelling.
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:52 am

I contacted AiG via their website - flagging this thread, calling Snelling a 'delusional liar', and saying "if I am wrong REFUTE ME".

I shall of course publish their refutation here - when I receive it. :)

Just about to check whether AiG have answered that question about Hawaii that an apparent supporter posted on their Facebook page a few hours ago. I shall of course report any 'answer' they offer here.

THIS canyon was formed sometime AFTER the Genesis Flood, whereas the Grand Canyon was formed DURING it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Waime ... r_2010.jpg

In which universe does that make scientific sense?
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:02 am

Yes - the YEC Christian explanation of 'historical' science is the only one containing lie upon lie upon lie. All other Christian viewpoints are much more truthful. And much LESS biblical - to the extent that the Bible is ever scientific.
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:08 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:I contacted AiG via their website - flagging this thread, calling Snelling a 'delusional liar', and saying "if I am wrong REFUTE ME".

I shall of course publish their refutation here - when I receive it. :)

Just about to check whether AiG have answered that question about Hawaii that an apparent supporter posted on their Facebook page a few hours ago. I shall of course report any 'answer' they offer here.

THIS canyon was formed sometime AFTER the Genesis Flood, whereas the Grand Canyon was formed DURING it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Waime ... r_2010.jpg

In which universe does that make scientific sense?



Oops this seems to have morphed into an attempted Conversation with Creationists as well as a Free for All discussing what should be taught and not taught in school science classes.
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:16 am

Though I do not know him, I sent a facebook message to Geoff Joyner the person who asked the pertinent question about the Waimea Canyon, saying that I predict he will not get a sensible answer out of AiG and flagging this thread (the message went to an 'other folder'). Should he respond, I'm not sure whether I'll get an email prompted by Facebook or whether I'll need to look at either his or my own (largely empty) Facebook page. Does anyone know? (Have also added a quick PS: "AiG abruptly and without any warning or explanation BANNED me from their facebook page".)
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:06 pm

Goodness me! Just to confirm what you've quoted, Ashley
Furthermore, as the Flood was waning, the plate motions decelerated from tens of feet (meters) per second to their current snail’s pace of only an inch or two (mere centimeters) per year.
I'm not sure what "tens of feet (meteres)" means but it's either >=20ft/sec or >=2m/sec. Tens of feet - their preferred measurement is roughly >=14mph! At the more modest metres, you might just be able to outpace the plates at >=4.5mph. Unless, of course, in their careless conversion they actually meant tens of metres per second, which would get you rapidly overwhelmed at 45mph. So what is it, AiG, tortoises or hares you'd grind under your tectonic plates?
(Oops, sorry - these "conversations" are catching!)
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby Michael » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:29 pm

Just imagine going splat into asia at 20 mph :)
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:54 pm

Jeremy Clarkson would be appalled...
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:06 pm

I see that AiG have TOTALLY IGNORED Geoff Joyner's question. Quelle surprise. And a Jonathan Autry has added:
"So if the dates are exaggerated by excess argon and radioactive decay rates around the universe were accelerated by the global earth bound flood, how can you agree with the relative nature of the measurements? According to you, there are two forces distorting them.
I am also curious about what you think of the Waimea Canyon. Formed after Noah's flood, do you think that there is 10 million years worth of erosion in that formation?"

GIVE IT UP, ANSWERS IN GENESIS. Oh wait, there's this utter foolishness under the article as well:
"We are going to Hawaii in about two weeks. I'm going to print out this article and to take with us. We will be on the Big Island for a week and will be hiking at the volcanic national park. This will be so helpful in combating the millions of years message we are sure to hear from our guide. Hope to be able to witness to them about the TRUTH of creation as written in the Bible."
Let us pray for the unfortunate guide that they will accept Christ and tell this person where to go at the same time.
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri May 30, 2014 7:30 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:That includes dangerous to the survival of Christianity (though it is necessary in order to perpetuate biblical fundamentalism).

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... ic-origins (the LATEST pack of appalling lies and junk science from Answers 'in' Genesis)

Let's COUNT the lies.

(1) "only catastrophic earth movements—a result of the Flood—can explain this string of jewels" (NOT the Flood nor catastrophic 'earth movements' other than volcanic eruptions);
(2) "this charming landscape is a product of catastrophic forces unleashed by Noah’s Flood" (not stated or implied in the Bible even if Noah's Flood happened as described there which it did not);
(3) "if the volcanoes that formed Hawaii’s eight major islands had been formed before or during Noah’s Flood ... so we know the volcanoes must have erupted following the Flood" (if you are a YEC ie a Christian fundamentalist trying to do 'science' starting with the book of Genesis, you are forced to insist that this happened less than 4,300 years ago; no wonder someone at the AiG facebook page is asking AiG "I would dearly like to hear your comments of how the Waimea Canyon may have formed from a biblical/flood perspective");
(4) "the origin of these gems gives us a fascinating window into the incredible tectonic forces that tore apart the planet during the Flood" (ditto what I said at 2);
(5) "the first islands, called the Emperor Seamounts, were small and most never grew large enough to reach the ocean surface" (oh yes they mostly did - and some are flat-topped as Snelling goes on to admit, suggesting that this is 'curious' when it is no such thing if you accept real science);
(6) "these islands formed quickly, over a few years, not “millions of years”" (total bunkum which apparently relies on both 'catastrophic plate tectonics' and enormous/enormously frequent Hawaiian volcanic eruptions all during the past 4,300 years - for which historical records of such events on the planet actually exist);
(7) "the islands quickly become smaller and smaller" (no, slowly - certainly not at the ridiculous speeds demanded by a belief in YEC-ism);
(8) "the Pacific plate ... has been moving northwestward. As the plate moved over the essentially stationary Hawaiian mantle plume, the rising molten rock built a series of seamounts and islands in quick succession" (ditto my comments at 7);
(9) "these measure radiometric decay over months and years, not “millions of years (Ma)”" (a total falsehood and wishful thinking, resulting from adopting and then sticking rigidly to a 'biblical worldview' that cannot cope with scientific evidence and scientific reality so is obliged to tell lies about the past that involve a kind of special pleading about all sorts of things being vastly 'speeded up' that uniformitarianism does not require);
(10) "incorrectly dated by the faulty radiometric method at some 81 million years ago" (YECs cannot show this despite years of trying and Snelling is forced to accept the pattern of relative ages confirmed by radiometric dating but not hinted at anywhere in the Bible);
(11) "however, if the plate motion had been uniformly slow at today’s rate, all the volcanic islands should have been of similar sizes" (garbage which assumes a constant pattern over time of volcanic eruptions from/over the hot spot ever since the first islands formed AND ignores the so-called 'quick' erosion that YECs are forced to tell people happened in the past);
(12) "creation geologists do not dispute that plate tectonics has occurred. However, they believe substantial evidence confirms that it occurred catastrophically during the Flood. Furthermore, as the Flood was waning, the plate motions decelerated from tens of feet (meters) per second to their current snail’s pace of only an inch or two (mere centimeters) per year" (this nonsense and self-deception for Jesus ignores the fact that Snelling has already informed us that the islands were formed AFTER the Flood, NOT before or during it eg he wrote "we know the volcanoes must have erupted following the Flood" - so unless he, a PhD scientist, used 'loose' wording he CANNOT mean that the 'catastrophic' eruptions only managed to reach the sea surface after the Flood; WHY do these people bother digging holes for themselves by posting self-contradictory and generally anti-scientific nonsense);
(13) "as the plates slowed, there would have been more time for the upwelling mantle “hot spot” to send up lavas, even if the eruptions decreased. Thus the island of Hawaii is much larger than the other islands" (but Snelling has just informed us that plate movements decelerated to their present pace while the Flood he believes in was WANING - BEFORE any Hawaiian islands formed according to his 'science');
(14) "the plate was moving so rapidly when the Emperor chain was being formed that few of the volcanoes had time to grow big enough to breach the ocean surface" (yes, 'tens of feet' every second - if you are a delusional science-hating YEC fantasist; no wonder Snelling claims most/all of those seamounts 'failed' to reach the sea surface);
(15) "excess argon rises with the lavas from beneath the earth’s crust, contaminating them so that they yield excessively old dates. This volcanic argon gas does not arise from radioactive decay of the potassium in the rocks, but instead it is trapped in the basalts, making them “read” older. Furthermore, potassium-argon dates of volcanic rocks on seamounts can increase with depth underwater, regardless of actual age" (if all that is the truth and not wild fantasy or deliberate lies, get it published in a peer-reviewed science journal Dr Snelling PhD);
(16) "but creation research has demonstrated that all the decay rates were grossly accelerated in the recent past, during the global Flood cataclysm" (all that has been demonstrated is that YEC scientific claims about the past are gross lies and gross fantasies that are refuted by known facts - as even fellow Christians wisely admit);
(17) "this finding indicates that, just as plates accelerated during the Flood and then decelerated, so radioactive decay rates accelerated, apparently in lockstep, and then decelerated" (a deliberate lie to 'prop up' an earlier deliberate YEC lie Dr Snelling).

17 reasons why this particular so-called 'biblical worldview' will turn honest and informed people AWAY from Christianity.



I see that AiG are advertising again this pile of falsehoods prominently on their new shiny website.

Meanwhile liar Ken Ham is accusing P Z Myers of not telling the truth on his facebook page - I have flagged the accusation at the Myers blog in question as I do not approve of atheists lying either should that happen to be the case in this instance.
https://www.facebook.com/aigkenham
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... sed-tight/
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Re: This 'biblical worldview' - the YEC one - is dangerous

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat May 31, 2014 11:00 pm

Re my preceding post, I see that Myers has made further comments (I don't find the topic hugely interesting so have not delved further):
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... -literate/
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