Noah's Ark Sinks

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Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:48 am

Ex-Big Ken Scam's plans for the Ark Encounter look to be in serious difficulties, I'm pleased to say.

Scam was looking to riase some $62 million from an issue of junk bonds; the deadline for sale of the bonds was 19th December. Since then there appears to have been silence from Ham. However Bloomberg reports that the bond issue has raised just over $10 million, leaving a funding shortfall of $52 million. Moreover, the bond issue was just the first major round of raising funding. Scam also needs to get the financing together by 2014 to get the huge local tax relief and support needed to get the project off the ground.

So, right now the Ark Encounter project looks to be dead in the water. With a bit of luck his entire fundamentalist, autocratic and nepotistic terror ministry will now go west as well.

BTW, Creation Ministries International must be rubbing their hands in glee.

See http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-1 ... 83-percent
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:15 am

Earnings are supposed to fund future attractions such as the “Ten Plagues Ride” and a 100-foot-high “Tower of Babel,” according to the offering statement.
I think one plague, of babbling Ham, would be quite enough!
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:23 am

Brian Jordan wrote:
Earnings are supposed to fund future attractions such as the “Ten Plagues Ride” and a 100-foot-high “Tower of Babel,” according to the offering statement.
I think one plague, of babbling Ham, would be quite enough!


It's nice to see the arrogance and hubris of creationists hit reality.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby cathy » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:34 am

Ex-Big Ken Scam's plans for the Ark Encounter look to be in serious difficulties, I'm pleased to say.


Ah so finally a creationist organisation is living up to its advertising of bringing us 'good news' :lol:
“Ten Plagues Ride” and a 100-foot-high “Tower of Babel,”

You know even as an atheist with no time at all for creationists, I find this quite tacky and blasphemous. And if I were a bible believing Christian would I really be making a theme park based on an act of Genocide that isn't satirical in any way but a genuine 'fun' experience? Isn't that a bit like having an Auchswitz theme park?

This made me go check out his website after a long absence, and I think it's got nuttier. Nothing at all about financial difficulties but a whole piece telling folk not to take their kids to Walking with Dinosaurs as it pushes the millions of years and evolution line - and has butt and poo jokes, tho Ken can't bring himself to say poo so says feces. This by the way is a film in which the dinosaurs talk!

He also has a disturbing piece about a bit of atheist stupidity which I suspect the creationists will dine out on. Some atheist has written a nasty and not very funny piece about boiling Ken alive for xmas dinner. Sometimes things are funny but this isn't really, it is just nasty for the sake of being nasty. Not very sensible - more sort of Dawkins shitiness for the sake of it rather than PZ Myers style.

Of course he also has his 'atheists are attacking Christmas' line. Which has clearly passed the rest of us by as everyone I know, regardless of beliefs or lack of, has decorated a tree, sung carols and, if their kids are little enough, been to a nativity. As always the only folk I know who have objected are the Jehovahs' witnesses. Maybe it's different in the USA?
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby cathy » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:40 am

Ooh he also has a piece about Duck Dynasty being pulled by the US networks as Duck had made homophobic comments. Believe me there were many reasons to ditch Duck Dynasty - the main one being it made Dog the Bounty hunter look intellectual. Homophobic comments - you'd never have seen that coming would you.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:56 am

cathy wrote:
Ex-Big Ken Scam's plans for the Ark Encounter look to be in serious difficulties, I'm pleased to say.


Ah so finally a creationist organisation is living up to its advertising of bringing us 'good news' :lol:
“Ten Plagues Ride” and a 100-foot-high “Tower of Babel,”

You know even as an atheist with no time at all for creationists, I find this quite tacky and blasphemous. And if I were a bible believing Christian would I really be making a theme park based on an act of Genocide that isn't satirical in any way but a genuine 'fun' experience? Isn't that a bit like having an Auchswitz theme park?

This made me go check out his website after a long absence, and I think it's got nuttier. Nothing at all about financial difficulties but a whole piece telling folk not to take their kids to Walking with Dinosaurs as it pushes the millions of years and evolution line - and has butt and poo jokes, tho Ken can't bring himself to say poo so says feces. This by the way is a film in which the dinosaurs talk!

He also has a disturbing piece about a bit of atheist stupidity which I suspect the creationists will dine out on. Some atheist has written a nasty and not very funny piece about boiling Ken alive for xmas dinner. Sometimes things are funny but this isn't really, it is just nasty for the sake of being nasty. Not very sensible - more sort of Dawkins shitiness for the sake of it rather than PZ Myers style.

Of course he also has his 'atheists are attacking Christmas' line. Which has clearly passed the rest of us by as everyone I know, regardless of beliefs or lack of, has decorated a tree, sung carols and, if their kids are little enough, been to a nativity. As always the only folk I know who have objected are the Jehovahs' witnesses. Maybe it's different in the USA?


Ultimately Ex-Big Ken Scam makes his money by peddling fear and terror. Alas, that's how all the fundies work. The USA, for the most part, lives in fear of religion rather than love of God. We've just seen another pedler of regious fear, Harold Camping, kick the bucket. Made millions out of peddling "fear" woo and paranoia. The American fear of religion ("you're un-America, evil and doomed unless you believe in what we say") is endemic. It's why Americans tyically lie about their church attendance. They are too frightended to tell the truth. Heck, without exception, US politicians are too scared to admit that they are even indifferent towards religion, let alone being non-believers.

The alleged "war on Christmas" is another (and bogus) manifestation of the culture of fear of religion. Indeed, I guess that the entire and endemic culture of paranoia amongst US wingnuts is just a product of fear of religion.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:06 pm

cathy wrote:Ooh he also has a piece about Duck Dynasty being pulled by the US networks as Duck had made homophobic comments. Believe me there were many reasons to ditch Duck Dynasty - the main one being it made Dog the Bounty hunter look intellectual. Homophobic comments - you'd never have seen that coming would you.


The fundies are too frightended of their own religion to say anything intelligent about this. Instead we get paranoia and conspiracy theory reactions from them.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:33 pm

BTW, Creation Ministries International must be rubbing their hands in glee.


One's as bad as the other Roger.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:12 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:
BTW, Creation Ministries International must be rubbing their hands in glee.


One's as bad as the other Roger.


Indeed but AiG is much more dangerous because it is much more ambitious. Ham basically left AiG Australia because it didn't have any big "influence". Likewise he departed the ICR.

CMI is essentially a bunch of Banana Benders stuck (and isolated) in Queensland. Ham went where the money and influence is, the USA.

Still, Ark Encounter now looks likely to remain as nothing than a cow pat in a field. :-)
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby cathy » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:35 pm

The USA, for the most part, lives in fear of religion rather than love of God. We've just seen another pedler of regious fear, Harold Camping, kick the bucket. Made millions out of peddling "fear" woo and paranoia. The American fear of religion ("you're un-America, evil and doomed unless you believe in what we say") is endemic. It's why Americans tyically lie about their church attendance. They are too frightended to tell the truth. Heck, without exception, US politicians are too scared to admit that they are even indifferent towards religion, let alone being non-believers.


Yeah but heres the thing I don't understand about American Christians, British fundie ones like our old Marc and creationists in particular. They are all right of genghis Khan and pretty nasty and unforgiving. Anti Obama, anti gay, anti women, anti rights and hellishly unforgiving.

Now I spent a huge portion of my life as a Christian and whilst I can't say I was a particularly good one or particularly up to speed on the OT, in fact I can honestly say I knew very little indeed about it, I did know a fair bit about the stuff in the NT. Enough to know that it's all about doing unto others, forgiving, giving to the poor, not being a hypocrite by stoning adulteresses, rich men not gettin into heaven etc (and boy are some of those US pastors rich men) etc. So I'd say to be a Christian would by it's very nature mean you had to be at least veering towards moderate socialism. Pro Obama care, pro rights and so on. I remember church and even school as a place where you were always being made aware of those less well off.

So what exactly are these folk doing? If America is, according to these folks, a Christian nation, why hasn't it voted in a national health service or a decent benefits system? Why is the bible belt the most right wing and cruel to the less well off? I really don't understand the creationist take on Christianity, because aside from the lying about science and being lunatic, it seems to be a fairly unchristian take on it all? Surely if you're taking the whole thing literally, you wouldn't be quite as rich as Ken Ham?
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:28 pm

cathy wrote:
The USA, for the most part, lives in fear of religion rather than love of God. We've just seen another pedler of regious fear, Harold Camping, kick the bucket. Made millions out of peddling "fear" woo and paranoia. The American fear of religion ("you're un-America, evil and doomed unless you believe in what we say") is endemic. It's why Americans tyically lie about their church attendance. They are too frightended to tell the truth. Heck, without exception, US politicians are too scared to admit that they are even indifferent towards religion, let alone being non-believers.


Yeah but heres the thing I don't understand about American Christians, British fundie ones like our old Marc and creationists in particular. They are all right of genghis Khan and pretty nasty and unforgiving. Anti Obama, anti gay, anti women, anti rights and hellishly unforgiving.

Now I spent a huge portion of my life as a Christian and whilst I can't say I was a particularly good one or particularly up to speed on the OT, in fact I can honestly say I knew very little indeed about it, I did know a fair bit about the stuff in the NT. Enough to know that it's all about doing unto others, forgiving, giving to the poor, not being a hypocrite by stoning adulteresses, rich men not gettin into heaven etc (and boy are some of those US pastors rich men) etc. So I'd say to be a Christian would by it's very nature mean you had to be at least veering towards moderate socialism. Pro Obama care, pro rights and so on. I remember church and even school as a place where you were always being made aware of those less well off.

So what exactly are these folk doing? If America is, according to these folks, a Christian nation, why hasn't it voted in a national health service or a decent benefits system? Why is the bible belt the most right wing and cruel to the less well off? I really don't understand the creationist take on Christianity, because aside from the lying about science and being lunatic, it seems to be a fairly unchristian take on it all? Surely if you're taking the whole thing literally, you wouldn't be quite as rich as Ken Ham?


The poltical right in the USA looks to be increasingly dysfunctional if not increasingly isolated. The young are deserting both the fundamentalist churches and the GOP. The prime reason seems to be the perception of intollerance. It seems that the rightwingers are increasingly focusing on attracting an ever narrower base of voters - white middle-aged and older males with less than stellar education. They are losing the votes of women, the well educated, black people, hispanics and gays and they never were attractive to progressives. Indeed, the wingnuts increasingly look to be a movement of the Deep South, flyover country and rural areas.

There are simply not enough white middle aged/old and not very bright opinionated bores there to sustain the movement. The growing extremism of the right seems to go hand in glove with declining support - a bit like the Labour Party in the UK in the 1980s. Worse still a lot of perceptive Americans realise that the hard core of the right is not creating jobs. Some half of new businesses in the USA are formed by immigrants (unlikey to be attracted by the jingoism of the politcal right) and jobs have been disappearing from rural America for years.

Texas may be an exception to this general pattern but most Americans do not have a very high opinion of Texans or Texas.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:11 pm

Another accounting of Ham's Folly. Ken knows who's to blame for his woes though:
“The associated complications and struggles have been beyond our control,” said Ham, who cited impediments such as atheists registering for the offering and disrupting it.
http://www.trentonian.com/lifestyle/20140104/it-will-take-another-27-million-to-build-noahs-ark
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Roger Stanyard » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:55 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Another accounting of Ham's Folly. Ken knows who's to blame for his woes though:
“The associated complications and struggles have been beyond our control,” said Ham, who cited impediments such as atheists registering for the offering and disrupting it.
http://www.trentonian.com/lifestyle/20140104/it-will-take-another-27-million-to-build-noahs-ark


What Bloomberg says is interesting; it claims that Answers in Genesis is providing no gaurantees for the junk bonds. Reading between the lines I guess that the original plan was to mortgage future revenue streams from the current AiG "museum" to at least partially back the bonds needed to fund Ark Encounter. Presumably as the current museum is not proving to be generating significant profits, this option is no longer feasible. That said, the Ark Encounter project increasingly looks to be in deep shit. Scam has a big problem. The "Creation Museum" not only cannot be used a a source of funds but also needs significant investment to reverse the decline in its attendence numbers. Scam looks to have two turkeys on his hands!

Still, Ark Encounter won't be the first US plan to creation a life size "replica" of the Ark to go belly up.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby jon_12091 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:39 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Another accounting of Ham's Folly. Ken knows who's to blame for his woes though:
“The associated complications and struggles have been beyond our control,” said Ham, who cited impediments such as atheists registering for the offering and disrupting it.
http://www.trentonian.com/lifestyle/20140104/it-will-take-another-27-million-to-build-noahs-ark

To the tune of $55 million? I suspect not.
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Re: Noah's Ark Sinks

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:30 pm

Ham has followed the example of Muslim critics and denounced the forthcoming Noah film. In true pot mode, he's called young kettles black because
... in this day and age, young people have a hard time deciphering reality from fiction and don't often take the time to form their own educated opinions.

Could it be, in fact, that the film will raise expectations about the ark that his landlocked shipwreck can't hope to fulfill?
http://www.christianpost.com/news/ken-ham-says-hollywoods-noah-will-do-more-harm-than-good-115834/
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