Ken Ham ducks a debate

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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:43 am

It would seem that Mr Ken Ham dares NOT participate in any one on one public debate with Mr Ra - who appears in this Eric Hovind video (stating in a somewhat emphatic manner that he has no presuppositions).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSTx_qTWMQI

MUCH easier for the cowardly Ham (who has the gift of the gab and claims that these people only offer 'nonsense') to post sarcastic comments about them on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/aigkenham
"Homeschoolers--Biblical Creationists--we are in real trouble! You have to watch this video--and decide what you will now do!
Yes, this powerful 4 minute video will show the incredible force of the atheists as they use science and logic to speak against those who believe in God's Word.
Last Saturday, a handful of Texas atheists turned out to protest my speaking at the Homeschool Conference at 'The Woodlands' (Houston, Texas). AiG friend Eric Hovind (his ministry is www.creationtoday.org) travelled to Houston to interview the protestors. Eric produced this video for me.
The one young lady who makes many comments is a science teacher (actually, when you hear her you will definitely want to Homeschool). Show your kids this video--send to your friends--show your church--share with your colleagues--these are the type of people who have influenced public education--these are the type of secularists that get Christian symbols out of public places. As you watch this you will not only see how lost these people are--and you will be burdened to pray for them--but you will also realize they have NOTHING to offer--just nonsense and hopelessness. Your children will be able to see the inconsistencies and contradictions in their statements!
Wait till the reporters at Huffington Post see this video--this will give them phenomenal arguments against Christians."

Meanwhile (this blog post contains a LONGER video than the effort put together by Hovind):
http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2013 ... inds-hand/
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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:56 am

Yes, I saw this on Ham's Facebook page yesterday Ashley and wondered about it. Hadn't realised that was Ra's wife. Is she from a science background ?

However, I really do think Atheists need to sort out where they stand on Christians and evolution. Hovind does have a point which I've been making over and over again but to no avail. On the one hand you've got people like Michael Zimmerman and the clergy letter project telling us it's fine to accept evolution. On the other we have people like Jerry Coyne and P.Z.Myers telling us the opposite, that science, and in particular evolution, demonstrates there is no God and the bible is simply hogwash from the "magic man" in the sky. So who should Christians listen to ? and why is science continually associated with Atheists, Humanists, and Sceptics ?

Even Dawkins has contradicted himself. On the one hand he's stated on BBC Radio Ulster that many Christians and Christian leaders accept evolution, yet he tells Howard Conder on Revelation TV the evangelicals (by which he presumably means the YECs) have got it right.

So which is it ? What position are we Christians supposed to accept ?

The YECs are desperate for this to become an "evolution vs God" debate. Why are some Atheists facilitating that request and why are they trying to promote Atheism through science ? Anyone should be able to attend a science event without it becoming a local get together of Atheists, Humanist, and Sceptics. Lest the YECs have won this aspect of the "debate".

I dunno'

Even our local Giant's Causeway "opposition to YECism at the visitor's centre" group has just become a mouthpiece for Atheism :cry:
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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:58 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:Yes, I saw this on Ham's Facebook page yesterday Ashley and wondered about it. Hadn't realised that was Ra's wife. Is she from a science background ?

However, I really do think Atheists need to sort out where they stand on Christians and evolution. Hovind does have a point which I've been making over and over again but to no avail. On the one hand you've got people like Michael Zimmerman and the clergy letter project telling us it's fine to accept evolution. On the other we have people like Jerry Coyne and P.Z.Myers telling us the opposite, that science, and in particular evolution, demonstrates there is no God and the bible is simply hogwash from the "magic man" in the sky. So who should Christians listen to ? and why is science continually associated with Atheists, Humanists, and Sceptics ?

Even Dawkins has contradicted himself. On the one hand he's stated on BBC Radio Ulster that many Christians and Christian leaders accept evolution, yet he tells Howard Conder on Revelation TV the evangelicals (by which he presumably means the YECs) have got it right.

So which is it ? What position are we Christians supposed to accept ?

The YECs are desperate for this to become an "evolution vs God" debate. Why are some Atheists facilitating that request and why are they trying to promote Atheism through science ? Anyone should be able to attend a science event without it becoming a local get together of Atheists, Humanist, and Sceptics. Lest the YECs have won this aspect of the "debate".

I dunno'

Even our local Giant's Causeway "opposition to YECism at the visitor's centre" group has just become a mouthpiece for Atheism :cry:



Lilandra was saying that she's a science teacher.
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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:03 pm

Interesting Ashley.

I think it was Sibley who started on about the absolute truth thing when I was posting on Premier (or it might have been Garner). What is absolute truth was the question.

Well, surely there are absolute truths in science. That the Earth is round and not flat is an absolute truth. Or the fact that there are 92 naturally occurring elements no matter where you go in the universe is another.

I think that's how I would have approached Hovind's question.

That the Earth is 4.55 billion years old and not 6,000 is beyond doubt.
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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby colmo » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:51 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:Even our local Giant's Causeway "opposition to YECism at the visitor's centre" group has just become a mouthpiece for Atheism :cry:


Hello Peter, I thought I'd find you seeking solace here. No, the group is not a mouthpiece for atheism, nor is it a group dedicated to your own personal, and rather embarrassing, martyrdom. - Colin (Remove group admin)
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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:59 pm

colmo wrote:
Peter Henderson wrote:Even our local Giant's Causeway "opposition to YECism at the visitor's centre" group has just become a mouthpiece for Atheism :cry:


Hello Peter, I thought I'd find you seeking solace here. No, the group is not a mouthpiece for atheism, nor is it a group dedicated to your own personal, and rather embarrassing, martyrdom. - Colin (Remove group admin)


I've been here a long time Colin and been involved with this even longer (ever since watching "from a frog to a prince" at a local church group) so I know a fair bit about the issues involved. So no, I'm not seeking "solace" here, as you put it.

My point on the Ron Elsdon thread was that when debating YECs there are two starting points.

(1) The bible says nothing about the age of the Earth. Convincing a YEC that the Earth isn't 6,000 years old is surely the most important thing.

(2) Evolution should not affect their faith.

Please tell me what on earth is wrong with that strategy when dealing with a hardened YEC such as Ian Brown ? That was the leeway I was talking about . Why did so many find that so offensive ?

Christians take their faith very, very seriously. To them God is real, not a magic man in the sky. If you can't understand that then you don't understand Christianity.

The Causeway Creation Facebook group has got it wrong, very wrong. Christians don't take kindly to their faith being mocked or poked fun at, believe me. Atheists do themselves no favours by behaving like this. Can't you understand that ?

I've moved in Christian circles long enough to know what you should and shouldn't do in this so called debate, whether you think God exists or not.
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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:04 pm

and the YECs are desperate for this to become an "evolution vs God" debate, believe me. Why play into their hands Colin ?
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Re: Ken Ham ducks a debate

Postby colmo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:17 pm

I've posted my decision on the Remove group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Causewa ... 009981974/

The arguments posted above are not the ones mentioned in the argument chronicled in the link.
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