Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

All are welcome to this forum, which is for debating the teaching of creationism or intelligent design in schools. This forum can be boisterous, and you should not participate if easily offended.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby SkepticalOne » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:09 am

Then why the heck should anyone here reply to your questions?


Christine has already been kind enough to answer my questions. Though she was wary to begin with she answered the questions I asked thoroughly and curteously. But since it is so important to you that I answer Peter, I will make you a deal. You quote any of my posts where I question the validity of evolutionary theory or where I make statements in agreement with CMI and I will reveal where I stand on the age of the earth and evolutionary theory. Or finally admit that I have made no such posts and that you have arrived at an a priori conclusion about my goals here despite the actual content of my posts. Doubtlessly you will call this arrogance and refuse, but the offer is there and I will uphold my end if you do either of the things I mention.

There's also the question of just what mass hallucination you are speaking of


I was referring to the as yet unsubstantiated belief that I am an incognito creationist troll. I do not deny that "mass hallucination" is hyperbole, but it is fun to say.

Or that one or two people here are suffering from a mass hallucination when they, quite reasonably, see in your posts and attitude aspects


Quite reasonably? I extend to you (and any other members) the same offer as I did Roger: quote the posts where I give any indication of creationist tendancies beyond asking for an explanation certain aspects of a theory and I will reveal my position on the age of the earth. Surely merely seeking answers that (as I mentioned) are not to be readily found elsewhere online is not sufficient evidence to condemn me? I asked my questions here because I had been under the impression that the forum was very active and populated by knowledgeable people eager to deal with questions about evolutionary theory. I retain this impression but I am now unfortunately aware of the strong undercurrents of suspicion to those seeking answers.

What is so important about the answers you are not quite getting, that you don't just shrug and write us off as unable to enlighten you?


I am getting answers, Brian. Christine has kindly answered my questions and I am glad to have crossed her path. I am sticking around to address what I feel is a distressing attitude to a reasonable question. Also if you would not mind quoting the posts where I arrogantly asked my questions I would appreciate it as I feel my tone was not arrogant and I would like to identify the problem so that I may avoid it in the future. I do not deny displaying some attitude in response to the thus-far unsubstantiated accusations leveled by some forum members, but I do not think I asked my questions arrogantly.
SkepticalOne
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:10 am

SkepticalOne wrote:
Then why the heck should anyone here reply to your questions?


Christine has already been kind enough to answer my questions. Though she was wary to begin with she answered the questions I asked thoroughly and curteously. But since it is so important to you that I answer Peter, I will make you a deal. You quote any of my posts where I question the validity of evolutionary theory or where I make statements in agreement with CMI and I will reveal where I stand on the age of the earth and evolutionary theory. Or finally admit that I have made no such posts and that you have arrived at an a priori conclusion about my goals here despite the actual content of my posts. Doubtlessly you will call this arrogance and refuse, but the offer is there and I will uphold my end if you do either of the things I mention.

.

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:28 am

Brian Jordan wrote:
SkepticalOne wrote:I've refused to answer because I don't think I should have to answer a question about the age of the earth when I am here trying to get some aspects of paleontology clarified. If I had at any point questioned the age of the earth or evolutionary theory then such a question would be justified and merit a response. As it is I am stubbornly refusing to indulge this mass hallucination.
This reply itself raises questions. Any discussion of paleontology would go in different directions depending whether the person posing the question believes the planet is billions or thousands of years old. Any perceived gap or anomaly in the fossil record will have different implications depending on whether it was found in a young, tightly packed bone-yard or among rare fragments broken and scattered by millions of years of geology. There's also the question of just what mass hallucination you are speaking of. Are you saying that accepting an old earth, or evolution, is a mass hallucination? Or that one or two people here are suffering from a mass hallucination when they, quite reasonably, see in your posts and attitude aspects characteristic of creationists trolling science forums?
Either way, you would do well to realise that people here are not obliged to answer your rather arrogantly posed questions, Also, just for the record, if they will not - or even cannot - answer them you will have earned no Brownie points - should you turn out in the end to be a creationist - because this does not pretend to be a forum for paleontological discussion.
So, to return to your questions: what are you hoping to learn about paleontology here that you cannot learn from an Internet search of passive information sites, or more specifically directed forums? What is so important about the answers you are not quite getting, that you don't just shrug and write us off as unable to enlighten you?


Precisely what is "SkepticalOne" sceptical about?
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:34 am

Roger Stanyard wrote:
SkepticalOne wrote:
Then why the heck should anyone here reply to your questions?


Christine has already been kind enough to answer my questions. Though she was wary to begin with she answered the questions I asked thoroughly and curteously. But since it is so important to you that I answer Peter, I will make you a deal. You quote any of my posts where I question the validity of evolutionary theory or where I make statements in agreement with CMI and I will reveal where I stand on the age of the earth and evolutionary theory. Or finally admit that I have made no such posts and that you have arrived at an a priori conclusion about my goals here despite the actual content of my posts. Doubtlessly you will call this arrogance and refuse, but the offer is there and I will uphold my end if you do either of the things I mention.

.

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle.


As I have repeatedly said, the age of the Earth is as important today as it was to Darwin. If the Earth were simply 6,000 years old then evolution (as scientists understand it) would indeed be impossibled. Even Kelvin's calculations of between 20-30 million years worried Darwin.

So why can't you answer this simple question skepticalOne ? HOW OLD IS THE EARTH ?

The lack of a response on this indicates you're a young earth creationist who's worried about blowing his/her cover.
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:48 am

Bearing in mind:

6.By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record.


http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:56 am

Peter Henderson wrote:So why can't you answer this simple question skepticalOne ? HOW OLD IS THE EARTH ?

The lack of a response on this indicates you're a young earth creationist who's worried about blowing his/her cover.
And of course your silence on the matter encourages people to believe the worst of you. If you are not a YEC, why play games? If you are, are you ashamed of it - or is it your dirty secret?
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4209
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Christine Janis » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:11 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:
So, to return to your questions: what are you hoping to learn about paleontology here that you cannot learn from an Internet search of passive information sites, or more specifically directed forums?


Yeah, I wonder that too. I'm always happy to answer questions within my areas of expertise, but sort of feel that I'm being set up here.
Christine Janis
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:25 am

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:54 pm

Christine Janis wrote:Brian Jordan wrote:
So, to return to your questions: what are you hoping to learn about paleontology here that you cannot learn from an Internet search of passive information sites, or more specifically directed forums?


Yeah, I wonder that too. I'm always happy to answer questions within my areas of expertise, but sort of feel that I'm being set up here.


It's lack of manners that really puts me off. He refuses to identify himself or his position but expects his questions to be answered without any quid pro quo.

You'll soon find out if he is a creationist. He'll just walk away from the group if he is.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:56 pm

A question, SkepticalOne, which you will surely want to answer since it relates to the subject of your thread. What do you consider that "theory" means?
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4209
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby SkepticalOne » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:48 pm

Yeah, I wonder that too. I'm always happy to answer questions within my areas of expertise, but sort of feel that I'm being set up here.


No need to worry, Christine. There is no set up, just an honest question. It seems I cannot win. All I have done here is ask a question about evolutionary theory which you answered well. Perhaps you and others feel that my acceptance of your answers means that I am merely waiting to spring a trap, but this is neither accurate nor justified. I have challenged anyone reading this thread to quote any evidence in my posts of creationist or anti-science leanings and no one has met that challenge. That is because I have made no such posts.

And of course your silence on the matter encourages people to believe the worst of you. If you are not a YEC, why play games? If you are, are you ashamed of it - or is it your dirty secret?

The lack of a response on this indicates you're a young earth creationist who's worried about blowing his/her cover.


Why would I be worried about being exposed as a creationist? I am already being treated with suspicion and hostility so making such an admission would hardly change anything. No, the reason I am withholding my answer is for the reasons previously stated. But I will reiterate. I came here with a question and took in the answer and now a number of you are convinced that I am a creationist in disguise trying to troll the forum. Never mind the fact that there is no evidence in my posts of this. It is therefore my desire for you or anyone (but particularly Roger who seems so confident and yet can provide no support for his position) to point out the posts that give evidence of creationist beliefs or admit that there are no such posts and that all this suspicion is based on an a priori assumption of my character independent of any actual evidence. I will then reveal my position on the age of the earth. The hostile attitude already being expressed toward me means that I have nothing to lose if I were to say I were a creationist, thus perhaps you will believe me when I say that my reason for holding out is that I would like to force you to realize that you are utterly convinced of a position despite any evidence whatsoever. Again, this is not a trap. I will not around and say "Aha! You are making unfounded assertions here and therefore everyone who accepts evolution is doing the same!" I merely want you to admit that in this case many of you have allowed your bias to manifest as hostility and suspicion despite a lack of evidence to validate such attitudes.

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle.


Incorrect. I am at my ease because I know that I am right in what I have said here. It is simple Roger. All you have to do is quote the posts that support your assertion or admit that there are none and this and all will be revealed. I can only imagine that it is you who are wriggling because you have taken such a strong stance without anything to back it up. Seriously, even if you think I am being completely disingenuous, what reason is there to not provide a quote that proves your suspicions correct? You know, unless THERE IS NO SUCH QUOTE.

What do you consider that "theory" means?


Please Brian, give me a little more credit. I have already indicated that I am not ignorant of science. I know what a scientific theory is. I know it is not the same thing as the colloquial use of "theory".

It's lack of manners that really puts me off. He refuses to identify himself or his position but expects his questions to be answered without any quid pro quo.


I was entirely courteous until these slings and arrows were unjustly directed at me. And as I have already pointed out, Christine did answer my questions without any hostility or reservations. You can clear up all this mystery if you answer my challenge.
SkepticalOne
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:55 pm

All I have done here is ask a question about evolutionary theory which you answered well


There's a darned sight more to "evolutionary theory" than a few fossilised footprints in Poland.
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:48 pm

SkepticalOne wrote:No need to worry, Christine. There is no set up, just an honest question. It seems I cannot win. All I have done here is ask a question about evolutionary theory which you answered well.
So we can add being patronising to your characteristics common to creationists. Thank you, kind sir. Touches forelock.
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4209
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:03 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:
SkepticalOne wrote:No need to worry, Christine. There is no set up, just an honest question. It seems I cannot win. All I have done here is ask a question about evolutionary theory which you answered well.
So we can add being patronising to your characteristics common to creationists. Thank you, kind sir. Touches forelock.


Perhaps he'd be better off on this forum:

http://evolutionfairytale.com/forum//in ... topic=5119
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby SkepticalOne » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:08 pm

So we can add being patronising to your characteristics common to creationists. Thank you, kind sir. Touches forelock.


I did not intend that to be patronizing, I was merely telling Christine that she should not feel like she is being set up. You seem to be so sure that I am a creationist. Why can't you quote any evidence of this in my posts?
SkepticalOne
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:25 am

Re: Dirty secret of Evolutionary theory?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:29 pm

SkepticalOne wrote:You seem to be so sure that I am a creationist. Why can't you quote any evidence of this in my posts?
No, just that you are behaving like one. Why can't you quote any evidence that you are not? You haven't actually denied that you are a creationist. so you have three times still to go. How about it?
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4209
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Free For All

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

cron