Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:51 am

cathy wrote:
His generalised and non-specific assertion that the claim by evolutionary scientists that natural selection would do immeasurably more than humans' selective breeding could ever do was wrong because the facts show 'the opposite';

I don't understand this, but I guess he was relying on the fact that 99.99% of the audience (with you as the 0.01%) didn't have a clue about any science and couldn't give a flying monkeys either as they were already brain washed by the religious points into blind acceptance. Natural selection of millions of years is incredibly powerful.

Though not a bad man (ie not like Stalin or Mao who were evolutionists and atheists)
Aaargh, well done for not vomiting when you heard this tiresome old crap yet again. What about the Spanish Inquisition whom nobody expects - they weren't atheists. And a long list of other bad religios.

He stated that genetic mutations are all near-neutral or harmful;
And? Its like playing cards, you have a random hand, you pick up, if bad for your hand you discard, if neutral mnah, but if good you keep. Until you get what you want. Natural selection deals with the few beneficial but is very powerful. So he's a liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How on earth could 'DNA check and repair' (which seeks to prevent copying mistakes ie mutations) have come about by evolution?
Well I think its called natural selection.

He thought the Krebs Cycle revealed a system that was 'irreducibly complex'.

I doubt it very much! What evidence did he give to prove known chemistry couldn't have come up with it in steps? Let guess here - was it ummmm - none?

he expressed the view that the 'power' behind evolution (which he believes is Satan) wants the church 'extinct'.

I'm afraid I really loathe and detest people who keep telling this lie because it is the only lie necessary to BULLY the hundreds of chirstians who would much rather be allowed to accept science and just get on with their lives and their worshipping without having to be morons!!!!!!! Do you know, much as I hate overuse of the word evil which I've always thought should be reserved for people like Ram Singh, I'm going to make an exception for people who use this lie. Which is a measure of how disgusted with it I am.


On the opening point above, I THINK he was saying that natural selection ALONE is conservative ie things are selected against and the gene pool narrows if that is all which happens. Which it isn't.

As I understand it, DNA check and repair is how some mutations within cell nucleii are PREVENTED. (Presumably because a lot of the spelling mistakes can have serious consequences for the individual concerned so they might die before breeding/be unable to breed/be selected against by females/become catholic priests and have no offspring; so the population gradually contains more and more individuals with/descended from those people with the advantageous ability to not pass on a tendency towards bad mutations?! I may be getting this bit wrong - not sure.)

He had lots of power point slides with various axioms and the like printed on them, but didn't cover every point verbally (he still overran slightly). I can't recall whether he elaborated further on Krebs (other than using some technical terms about how it works that is).
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:01 am

cathy wrote:
what he said in his talk that I felt was misleading or open to question.

Everything you've said was misleading and open to question Ashley. None of it was particularly honest.

These Christians must be very convinced, or feel very pressurised to believe,

I've said before I feel the vast majority are pressurised to believe this crap by people lIke him. Some are convinced others are just liars doing it for egotistical reasons but the vast majority are creationists because they are bullied into being so by being told it is an evil plot of Stalin - who for the record happens to be dead!!!

Well done Ashley. Having attended creationist talks in the past they are incredibly frustrating and not good for blood pressure.


It was not as bad as I thought it might be. Though most of what he actually spoke may have been reasonably accurate as far as it went, I also think he did not always present a full picture of his (numerous) topics but a decidedly one-sided one.

He agreed with the Chief Medical Officer about the looming antibiotics crisis - but, well I never, said that resistance wasn't evolution.
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:02 am

Correction to a comment I made in the early hours of Thursday - Richard/Dick Barrett is not a medical doctor, he is a chemist by background.

I believe he works for this company, which I also gather is based in Daventry, Northants: http://www.bvwater.co.uk/home/

Indeed he is the CHAIRMAN of the company (and a cyclist - I recognise the face)!
http://www.bvwater.co.uk/media/post/b-v ... the-world/

His age is nearer 65 than the 40 or so I assumed from his appearance...
http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/904435587

I think this is his church: http://www.daventryurc.org.uk/Men's_ministry.htm
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:20 am

Indeed he is the CHAIRMAN of the company (and a cyclist - I recognise the face)!
http://www.bvwater.co.uk/media/post/b-v ... the-world/


When I worked for Premier Power Ashley, we dealt with a number of similar type companies:

http://www.ctsltd.com/about/
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:38 am

Peter Henderson wrote:
Indeed he is the CHAIRMAN of the company (and a cyclist - I recognise the face)!
http://www.bvwater.co.uk/media/post/b-v ... the-world/


When I worked for Premier Power Ashley, we dealt with a number of similar type companies:

http://www.ctsltd.com/about/


I wondered when writing my preceding post whether the 'FWMS' after Dr Barrett's name indicated Fellowship of Water Management Services or some such title...
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Indoctrination weekend in Surrey next month?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:44 am

I have just received an email from CMI, based on my link below, about the forthcoming 'Unmasking Fables, Promoting Truth' Day Conference.

http://creation.com/Fables
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/donatio ... sFlyer.pdf
These details are somewhat sketchy. (I do not think I would be able to attend.)

Science is the enemy! It must be fought.
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby cathy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:44 am

Three of those are the usual suspects, moronic and in pretty unpleasant. Tho Paul James Griffiths is so off the scale inane he is far funnier than the others (unintentionally) in that he clearly doesn't understand science but will drag in anything. He's Marcs big buddy from Edinburgh Creation Group and a real conspiracy theorists. Evolutionists have been running things like the Mason since - ooh about the bronze age probably. He's the sort that does the long before Darwin Evolution was working its evil satan inspired 'magic' line. I amazed that even creationists let him in - he even gives them a bonkers name.
•Arthur Francis Green, Chairman of Foundation for Christian Education (UK) and CEO of Breakthrough To People Network (USA), author of the recent book When Fables Fall, Unmasking the Lies of Distorted Science, Humanism and Secularism.
•Dominic Statham, speaker and writer with CMI-UK/Europe, author of the author of Evolution: Good Science? Exposing the ideological nature of Darwin’s theory.
•Dr Don Batten, senior scientist and speaker with CMI-Australia, an editor for Creation magazine and author of several books, including The Creation Answers Book.
•Paul James-Griffiths, Edinburgh City Mission and pioneer of Edinburgh Creation Group, runs historical walking tours and works among university students.


However the rold of the first guy is alarming. Who is Arthur Francis Green and what is the Foundation of Christian Education UK? Any links to our creationists wanting to get hold of education?
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:27 pm

cathy wrote:Tho Paul James Griffiths is so off the scale inane he is far funnier than the others (unintentionally) in that he clearly doesn't understand science but will drag in anything. He's Marcs big buddy from Edinburgh Creation Group and a real conspiracy theorists. Evolutionists have been running things like the Mason since - ooh about the bronze age probably.
Well well well, a disciple of Adnan Oktar. I didn't realise there was a Scotland-Turkey axis, thought there was just a Kentucky-Turkey one.
Edit: add emphasis
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Surrey

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:21 am

cathy wrote:Three of those are the usual suspects, moronic and in pretty unpleasant. Tho Paul James Griffiths is so off the scale inane he is far funnier than the others (unintentionally) in that he clearly doesn't understand science but will drag in anything. He's Marcs big buddy from Edinburgh Creation Group and a real conspiracy theorists. Evolutionists have been running things like the Mason since - ooh about the bronze age probably. He's the sort that does the long before Darwin Evolution was working its evil satan inspired 'magic' line. I amazed that even creationists let him in - he even gives them a bonkers name.
•Arthur Francis Green, Chairman of Foundation for Christian Education (UK) and CEO of Breakthrough To People Network (USA), author of the recent book When Fables Fall, Unmasking the Lies of Distorted Science, Humanism and Secularism.
•Dominic Statham, speaker and writer with CMI-UK/Europe, author of the author of Evolution: Good Science? Exposing the ideological nature of Darwin’s theory.
•Dr Don Batten, senior scientist and speaker with CMI-Australia, an editor for Creation magazine and author of several books, including The Creation Answers Book.
•Paul James-Griffiths, Edinburgh City Mission and pioneer of Edinburgh Creation Group, runs historical walking tours and works among university students.


However the rold of the first guy is alarming. Who is Arthur Francis Green and what is the Foundation of Christian Education UK? Any links to our creationists wanting to get hold of education?



I found this: http://www.companieslist.co.uk/05294427 ... -education
And this: http://www.facebook.com/events/519067374782660/
And this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews ... ewpoints=1 (I see the fingerprints of some YEC visitors)
And this: http://whenfablesfall.blogspot.co.uk/

He appears to be a Management Consultant, and not a scientist (or theologian).
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Surrey

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:10 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:And this: http://whenfablesfall.blogspot.co.uk/
His book's publisher is owned by the Ellel Mnistries (but registered as The Chrsitian Trust), an organisation based in Lancaster but with international offshoots.
A quick scan finds no evidence of overt creationism. One Google link, however, accuses it of dangerous practices with an occult foundation! This seems to be with respect to deliverance from demons by its founder Peter Horribin. http://eliora.hubpages.com/hub/THE-BIBLE-AND-INNER-HEALING-A-FOCUS-ON-ELLEL-MINISTRIES
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Re: Young Earth Creationism in Rugby

Postby cathy » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:37 pm


Wow and heres me a real fan of both Munch (especially the scream) and Jane Austen and her brooding Darcy like heros. Now I find out both are creationists and the scream an anti evolution painting. Well who'd have thought that, not Jane and Edvard I bet. :evil:
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Re: Indoctrination weekend in Surrey next month?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:52 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:I have just received an email from CMI, based on my link below, about the forthcoming 'Unmasking Fables, Promoting Truth' Day Conference.

http://creation.com/Fables
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/donatio ... sFlyer.pdf
These details are somewhat sketchy. (I do not think I would be able to attend.)

Science is the enemy! It must be fought.



A two-page PDF giving more details of the conference:
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/donatio ... sFlyer.pdf
Looks like two speakers particularly want to undermine the reputation of Charles Darwin.
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Re: Indoctrination weekend in Surrey next month?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:40 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Looks like two speakers particularly want to undermine the reputation of Charles Darwin.
Quite how something like this is suppose to strengthen their case, I don't know
Exposing the Roots of Evolution
Few realize that evolutionary thinking began not with Darwin, hut with pagan philosophers thousands of years before him.
Paul lames-Griffiths
Especially when it comes from someone with these qualifications
PAUL JAMES-GRIFFITHS worked as a West End Iheatre Chaplain in shows like Cats and Phantom of the Opera and was a missionary to the New Age Movement for six years. Since 2004 he has been working with Edinburgh City Mission. He now runs an historical walking tour and has pioneered Edinburgh Creation Group next to the University of Edinburgh where he works with students.
I expect they'll need someone other than he if they're to achieve their aim of making more of Edinburgh than the Fringe into an evolution-free zone.
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Re: Indoctrination weekend in Surrey next month?

Postby jon_12091 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:38 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:A two-page PDF giving more details of the conference:
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/donatio ... sFlyer.pdf
Looks like two speakers particularly want to undermine the reputation of Charles Darwin.

Ahhh, creationists hard at work attempting to separate Christians from their money....

Exposing the Roots of Evolution
Few realize that evolutionary thinking began not with Darwin, but with pagan philosophers thousands of years before him.
Paul lames-Griffiths

Assuming he's talking about Classical Greek philosophers their influence on thought reaches deep into Christianity as we know it and certainly influences most creationists DWRM pin-ups. Sounds like its probably a piece of massive intellectual fail with a side order of historical revisionism. Actually the whole conference appears to be an exercise in revisionism.
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Re: Indoctrination weekend in Surrey next month?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:00 pm

jon_12091 wrote:
a_haworthroberts wrote:A two-page PDF giving more details of the conference:
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/donatio ... sFlyer.pdf
Looks like two speakers particularly want to undermine the reputation of Charles Darwin.

Ahhh, creationists hard at work attempting to separate Christians from their money....

Exposing the Roots of Evolution
Few realize that evolutionary thinking began not with Darwin, but with pagan philosophers thousands of years before him.
Paul lames-Griffiths

Assuming he's talking about Classical Greek philosophers their influence on thought reaches deep into Christianity as we know it and certainly influences most creationists DWRM pin-ups. Sounds like its probably a piece of massive intellectual fail with a side order of historical revisionism. Actually the whole conference appears to be an exercise in revisionism.



Sorry, what's DWRM? It's probably something obvious but all I am getting is something like 'Darwinian Worldview Revisionism Method' which I'm sure isn't the right answer.
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