Up Coming TV

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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Michael » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:12 am

jon_12091 wrote:
Ham wrote:We have found them to be perhaps the most aggressively anti-God media in the world today.

OMG they give Christians with different views to Ken slots on a main radio channel during the prime time morning news program and oh no'z other religions as well...

There's also Song of Praise (okay may be not a great example), but that must confuse the hell out of Ham. 'Where are the scrolling call center numbers for giving money? These limeys really don't understand religion do they.'

ROFL, they just don't portray Ken Ham's God.



Does Ham's God exist?
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:27 am

Peter Henderson wrote:Ham is not a happy bunny:

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs ... Ken+Ham%29

I usually find that when the secular media are discussing the topic of origins,

1.they try to find some leader in the church who compromises with evolution,
2.they find people whom they know are not equipped to answer the questions, and
3.they avoid using creationists who are qualified scientists.
They act this way because they are not out for the truth. They want to shake their fist at God—and “suppress the truth” (Romans 1).

Overall, this BBC program is just another demonstration of the kind of intolerance for God’s Word that exists in our Western culture today.

Frankly, we weren’t surprised at all about what happened during this show—we expected it. And particularly with the BBC network involved, we anticipated nothing but a slam against Bible-believing Christians. That seems to be the norm for the BBC, as we have discovered over the years (especially in its coverage of our Creation Museum). We have found them to be perhaps the most aggressively anti-God media in the world today.


It's just the martyrdom complex at work again. The BBC has a problem getting AiG spokespeople on to speak as AiG fell out with its people in the UK and closed down its operation. AIG is not a UK organisation and Ham is not a UK citizen. We pay for it, he doesn't. His position is just about as daft and self serving as, say, the Southern Baptist Convention whinging about not getting enough coverage on the BBC.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:43 am

Does Ham's God exist?
Yep! He's called Ken Ham
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:26 pm

You wait ages for a decent science programme, then four come along together. Not only are there three "prehistoric autopsies" but the middle one, tonight, clashed with the largely unannounced "Order and Disorder with Jim Al-Kalili" on BBC4 - what is surely one of the most important science programmes of the year. Don't you sometimes just want to murder a BBC programme planner?
If you can watch it on demand or on your computer, please do so - I only caught bits of it and will have to watch it again on my pc for sure. Turing machines, Entropy, Shannon information and a deconstruction of Maxwell's Demon. That McIntosh's Demon wasn't mentioned is hardly surprising, it being a bibliolatrous invention rather than a thought experiment, but you can be sure it wouldn't have survived it it had been discussed.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:27 pm

I recall Ken Ham arguing with Eugenie Scott during part of this 2009 radio programme: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00kq564

Tomorrow night's 'Autopsy' programme features Australopithecus afarensis.

Some interesting science in parts of last night's Dawkins offering on More 4 too.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:34 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:Some interesting science in parts of last night's Dawkins offering on More 4 too.
I missed that one. At least I can't blame the BBC planners and Channel 4 do offer repeats.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:51 am

The seven ages of starlight, BBC Four, Thursday 9 pm.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:19 am

Some interesting science in parts of last night's Dawkins offering on More 4 too.
Haven't watched this yet and probably won't get the chance, but before I remove it completely from my list of priorities was it worth watching? If it is just him he is a bit repetitive, dull and one dimensional in his thinking and analysis but he can get really good interesting atheist people on shows with him which mediate that and make them fascinating.

Tomorrow night's 'Autopsy' programme features Australopithecus afarensis.
Was out last night so recorded this and really, really, really looking forward to watching it. The first one was nice and clear and also simple enough for the kids to watch. Youngest child loved it anyway. Was this one as good? She tells me it was but she tells me one direction are musically talented so I don't always trust her judgement? In this case I think shes probably right tho.

You wait ages for a decent science programme, then four come along together. Not only are there three "prehistoric autopsies" but the middle one, tonight, clashed with the largely unannounced "Order and Disorder with Jim Al-Kalili" on BBC4 - what is surely one of the most important science programmes of the year. Don't you sometimes just want to murder a BBC programme planner?
Yep annoying. Got the rest of the Order and Disorder series recorded but haven't had a chance to watch any yet. Along with the money men about economics (which will float so far over my head it'll hit space satellites) and loads of episodes of only connect quiz and Panarama.

That McIntosh's Demon
What is this? Or is it so bonkers and incoherent you can't actually describe it. Like his talk to the Brum skeptics dvd where after ten minutes you suddenly realised there was no logic or reason to anything he said and you were rendered dumb with shock. Guess that's why creationists are reduced to just saying 2nd law thermodynamics and then shutting up while sane people struggle to frame questions around the sheer inanity of it.

Bumped into some brum skeptics last week selling dvds of their various talks at a thing I'd gone to at our local arts centre (yes we do have arts in the midlands), including McInstoshs talk. I asked was he the famous creationist and they said yes they always tried to invite someone from the other side (of what they didn't specify but I'd guess reality). Apparently one of their members said it had started lucidly and well and then after about ten minutes it became like watching somebody go slowly insane on fast forward as he just lost the plot. God did it became his only evidence, explanation and detail. We may go along some time as they seemed very nice.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:04 pm

cathy wrote:
That McIntosh's Demon
What is this? Or is it so bonkers and incoherent you can't actually describe it.
Well, I can try but to tell the truth I can't remember the details. In effect, he said that information couldn't be added to dna just by being there and waiting to be incorporated. There had to be a machine to do it. Clearly meaning machina ex deus, but "McIntosh's Demon" (c) is much more amusing, don't you think?
He made the argument in one of his recorded sermons, IIRC
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:08 pm

If it is just him he is a bit repetitive, dull and one dimensional in his thinking and analysis but he can get really good interesting atheist people on shows with him which mediate that and make them fascinating
.

Personally Cathy, I find his views on science and morality somewhat simplistic and naive,

I glanced briefly at it on Four7 and he was saying lust was a perfectly natuaral urge and present throughout the animal kingdom. Does this justify the sex trade ?

Likewise, animals may kill other animals in order to survive, but human beings are the only animal that kills purely for pleasure.

Dawkins view of science doesn't answer those questions, surely ?
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:36 pm

I glanced briefly at it on Four7 and he was saying lust was a perfectly natuaral urge and present throughout the animal kingdom. Does this justify the sex trade ?
Thats an odd question to ask. I'd be interested to know what Dawkins concluded? I didn't see the programme but I'd have said that theres a world of difference between reciprocated lust between adults - which is lovely and fun - and Jimmy Saville style lust or even Jeremy Forrest style behaviour which is abusive and damaging.

Isn't all of the sex trade driven by simple economics on the part of the women/men selling (willingly or not), so thats definitely a transaction where lust is on one side only and hard nosed finance on the other. Don't think thats ever really seen in the animal kingdom at all (is it?). Don't animals fall more into the reciprocal lust category? So thats a really pointless sort of comparison in a way.

And I'm not sure you can realistically compare a species that has evolved concealed ovulation and therefore can have sex approxiamately 3/4 of the time for fun, with the rest of the animal kingdom which obviously hasn't and has a clear mating season. So not sure how he could even begin to answer that one.

Likewise, animals may kill other animals in order to survive, but human beings are the only animal that kills purely for pleasure.

Dawkins view of science doesn't answer those questions, surely ?

I'm with what Jerry Coynes book said, we're miles from a good scientific understanding of complex human behaviour yet. We're probably closer to understanding abiogenesis. I wouldn't think Dawkins would remotely have the answers as he does seem to work with very limited simplistic stereotypes.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:36 pm

Please see here, including my message 65 just now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview ... p114128004
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:16 am

cathy wrote:
Some interesting science in parts of last night's Dawkins offering on More 4 too.
Haven't watched this yet and probably won't get the chance, but before I remove it completely from my list of priorities was it worth watching? If it is just him he is a bit repetitive, dull and one dimensional in his thinking and analysis but he can get really good interesting atheist people on shows with him which mediate that and make them fascinating.

Tomorrow night's 'Autopsy' programme features Australopithecus afarensis.
Was out last night so recorded this and really, really, really looking forward to watching it. The first one was nice and clear and also simple enough for the kids to watch. Youngest child loved it anyway. Was this one as good? She tells me it was but she tells me one direction are musically talented so I don't always trust her judgement? In this case I think shes probably right tho.

You wait ages for a decent science programme, then four come along together. Not only are there three "prehistoric autopsies" but the middle one, tonight, clashed with the largely unannounced "Order and Disorder with Jim Al-Kalili" on BBC4 - what is surely one of the most important science programmes of the year. Don't you sometimes just want to murder a BBC programme planner?
Yep annoying. Got the rest of the Order and Disorder series recorded but haven't had a chance to watch any yet. Along with the money men about economics (which will float so far over my head it'll hit space satellites) and loads of episodes of only connect quiz and Panarama.

That McIntosh's Demon
What is this? Or is it so bonkers and incoherent you can't actually describe it. Like his talk to the Brum skeptics dvd where after ten minutes you suddenly realised there was no logic or reason to anything he said and you were rendered dumb with shock. Guess that's why creationists are reduced to just saying 2nd law thermodynamics and then shutting up while sane people struggle to frame questions around the sheer inanity of it.

Bumped into some brum skeptics last week selling dvds of their various talks at a thing I'd gone to at our local arts centre (yes we do have arts in the midlands), including McInstoshs talk. I asked was he the famous creationist and they said yes they always tried to invite someone from the other side (of what they didn't specify but I'd guess reality). Apparently one of their members said it had started lucidly and well and then after about ten minutes it became like watching somebody go slowly insane on fast forward as he just lost the plot. God did it became his only evidence, explanation and detail. We may go along some time as they seemed very nice.


I enjoyed this episode more than the preceding one (as well as what's described here, they travelled into the Irish Sea to catch some - very long-lived - clams): http://www.channel4.com/programmes/sex- ... od#3429147
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:49 am

I've already submitted two comments to this blog post - reproducing my email of 13 August to AiG about Ken Ham's 'duh duh' article and also flagging the BBC 'Autopsy' series (currently awaiting moderation): http://evoanth.wordpress.com/2012/08/13 ... d-mondays/

Will examine the blog and then the AiG response ... later.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:08 am

I've just caught this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01mx7h9

Psst - on no account must Paul Garner, Andrew Snelling, Tas Walker and their colleagues be informed about this programme - shhhh. It included the 'u' word, and I don't mean u-shaped valley. Oooops

It didn't include the 'F' word, spelt with an initial capital letter, as far as I can recall.
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