Up Coming TV

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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:33 pm

Noah's family had eight members so they must have gone in two by two, representing four "kinds". I believe it's customary to identify those "kinds" with races, but surely four hominin species would better fit the fossil record

Ah to fit the fossil record various members of the Noah family were various homin species? Which ones I wonder and how do we then write of the rest. So perhaps one son was homo erectus and not very bright. One was neanderthal, one homo florensis and Lucy one of the Noah wives perhaps?
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:43 pm

cathy wrote:Ah to fit the fossil record various members of the Noah family were various homin species? Which ones I wonder and how do we then write of the rest. So perhaps one son was homo erectus and not very bright. One was neanderthal, one homo florensis and Lucy one of the Noah wives perhaps?
So we had Lucy, as I suggested, working at one end of the dinosaurs and homo erectus working hard figuring out how to use his shovel at the other end! Both all the time suffering from crippling arthritis, to boot.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:04 pm

Interesting, though creationism vs evolution did not come up: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unre ... od#3436588
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Recent TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:54 pm

Blog post from Don Prothero on the creationist road trip programme: http://www.skepticblog.org/2012/11/07/a ... more-19398 (I've submitted a brief comment underneath, currently awaiting moderation)
And another, recent, one by Jerry Coyne: http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com ... ther-lolz/ (loads of comments underneath)
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Recent TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:30 pm

These are my attempted comments under the Prothero blog:

(1) I will flag this blog post on the British Centre for Science Education community forum (where someone who apparently knew one of the creationists in the programme recently claimed that the water did not run straight when poured out of the bucket the first time – maybe the creationist shook the bucket as he poured the water?)

(2) There was NO article on the CMI website (likewise the AiG website) about Horseshoe Bend before 18 September 2012 - Tas Walker's article which (as is now clear) was looking ahead to the part of the recent BBC Three Creationism Road Trip programme featuring Don Prothero. I am convinced that after filming Phil Robinson contacted former colleagues at CMI seeking a 'response' to the Prothero Horseshoe Bend claims that the Flood could not have 'done it' - and that the Tas Walker article was specially written so that the YECs would have an 'answer' by the time the programme was broadcast in the UK.
See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvarphP_vYk
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Re: Recent TV

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:45 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:These are my attempted comments under the Prothero blog:

(1) I will flag this blog post on the British Centre for Science Education community forum (where someone who apparently knew one of the creationists in the programme recently claimed that the water did not run straight when poured out of the bucket the first time – maybe the creationist shook the bucket as he poured the water?)

(2) There was NO article on the CMI website (likewise the AiG website) about Horseshoe Bend before 18 September 2012 - Tas Walker's article which (as is now clear) was looking ahead to the part of the recent BBC Three Creationism Road Trip programme featuring Don Prothero. I am convinced that after filming Phil Robinson contacted former colleagues at CMI seeking a 'response' to the Prothero Horseshoe Bend claims that the Flood could not have 'done it' - and that the Tas Walker article was specially written so that the YECs would have an 'answer' by the time the programme was broadcast in the UK.
See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvarphP_vYk


I've submitted a couple of comments Ashley re. Phil Robinson and the number of YECs in the UK, specifically Northern Ireland.

Not sure if they'll appear. but they're currently awaiting moderation.

This is one of the most effective parts of the programme, in my opinion, and his encounter with Phil Robinson really showed YECism up for what it is......."so it did" !

Even though it was heavily edited:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txzOIGulUIQ
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:21 pm

A thorough YEC response to the recent Dawkins TV programmes: https://www.csm.org.uk/news.php
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:48 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:A thorough YEC response to the recent Dawkins TV programmes: https://www.csm.org.uk/news.php


Again, Hayes cleverly identifies young Earth creationism as being synonymous with Christianity as a whole.

Are Christians who reject young Earth creationism "enemies of the gospel" ?

Christians, watch Dawkins and do not let him go unchallenged. I suspect this clever (although unwise), subtle and highly motivated activist may be seeking to nudge public opinion and the powers that be in certain directions which will be detrimental to the liberties you take for granted. He has repeatedly likened teaching children that the Bible is true and Darwinism false to child abuse, and you know what we do to child abusers, don’t you? It is long past time that British Christians woke up and recognised that the enemies of the Gospel don’t want to negotiate a truce with us or even just force us into a corner. They will not be satisfied until they have completely extinguished authentic Biblical Christianity in our nation. We need to use our free speech while we can. Remember the seven churches of Asia mentioned in Revelation. Where are they now?
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:13 am

This (very) short talk, broadcast tomorrow, isn't about creationism as such but it may be of interest: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/4tho ... episode-85
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:57 am

On a similar topic: http://creation.com/children-see-the-world-as-designed
I do recall a Dawkins programme around 2009 where children in the UK gave answers to Dawkins and a female researcher which indicated a belief in causal explanations rather than something more random. I don't recall them stating - without prompting - that all life shows evidence of being designed by the Christian God or some other God. When I was a child I certainly did not 'know' that God existed - I was sceptical about God (certainly a 'personal' God) even if I lacked awareness of what scientists believed about life and how it came about (I just accepted it without asking much further analysis).
It is certainly - judging by the behaviour of people like Ken Ham - necessary to indoctrinate kids in the specific beliefs they apparently need in order (a) to become Christians ie do evangelism and (b) more controversially necessary to indoctrinate them that the whole of the Bible is infallible history and - as far as it goes - infallibly scientifically correct as well. Just believing there might be a God is apparently NOT enough for the Christian God. Of course the kids who hear Mr Ham (usually from fundamentalist Christian families) do appear very receptive to his slick presentations which they appear to enjoy; Mr Catchpoole also appears to have a winsome style of delivery. And what is enough for God is, apparently, not enough for young Earth creationists - kids and adults too appear to require (or may even want) a sort of 'vaccination' against the evils of naturalistic science.
The REAL question is not "does evolutionary theory interfere with or undermine traditional Christian belief" it is "which is true - Christianity, evolution, or both".
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Re: Past TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:34 pm

I've now finally tracked down where and when this was broadcast on More4 - in the final part of Faith Schools Menace in 2010 (I had to register in order to watch the programme but that is very easy): http://www.channel4.com/programmes/fait ... od#3126680

At Windmill Primary School (not a faith school) Dawkins met some children and also psychologist Dr Deborah Kelemen. When asked which of two explanations for eg 'pointy' rocks children thought more likely they generally chose an unscientific or less scientific answer - one that advocated purpose or meaning - over a scientific one. Essentially 'religious' answers and explanations. The psychologist agreed that young children could be viewed as 'natural creationists'. Dawkins also pointed out that they are often surrounded by designed objects in the home.

This blog also mentioned the programme: http://galwayskeptics.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... -tion.html

YECs would say young children get it right. Dawkins would say that they get it wrong and that religious thinking is childish thinking.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:25 pm

Something more recent which mentions Dr Justin Barrett (who it seems do believe that evolution is true): http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110513.html
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Recent TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:19 pm

""In other words, not like you creationists who believe in things without evidence." [quoted from the Tas Walker blog post at http://biblicalgeology.net/blog/don-pro ... road-trip/] Indeed. There's no evidence - even in the Bible - that the Grand Canyon was created in months or weeks by Noah's Flood!

"In other words, Prothero doesn't deal only with things he can observe." [Also quoted from the same entry as Tas Walker's Biblical Geology.] No. He's a scientist, NOT a 'creation scientist' - those religious apologists who bang on about 'observational science'."

http://spot.colorado.edu/~cleland/artic ... eology.pdf
She forgot to mention the effects of Creation Week, the Fall, the Curse and Noah's worldwide Flood upon efforts to rule out or rule in unseen past events using the scientific method...
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:14 pm

Code: Select all
I've now finally tracked down where and when this was broadcast on More4 - in the final part of Faith Schools Menace in 2010

Hmm a lot of the stuff on that particular programme was factually inaccurate. Whatever peoples opinions of faith schools. Dawkins could have made just as compelling a programme without resorting to those inaccuracies and presented just as valid an argument.

I would imagine the reasons RC and CofE schools refused him access was the same reason he refuses to debate creationists.

At Windmill Primary School (not a faith school) Dawkins met some children and also psychologist Dr Deborah Kelemen. When asked which of two explanations for eg 'pointy' rocks children thought more likely they generally chose an unscientific or less scientific answer - one that advocated purpose or meaning - over a scientific one. Essentially 'religious' answers and explanations. The psychologist agreed that young children could be viewed as 'natural creationists'. Dawkins also pointed out that they are often surrounded by designed objects in the home.



YECs would say young children get it right. Dawkins would say that they get it wrong and that religious thinking is childish thinking.
I'm not sure I agreed with Dawkins and the psychologists particular conclusions myself. Young children think differently and will believe in magical things, but are eager to learn. They are essentially sponges for knowledge and will happily accept scientific explanations if given - and love them.

If none are given than I think what they observed was more a simplistic, less informed way of trying to make sense of a complex world rather than a deliberate attempt to impose design all over the place. We're hard wired to dislike disorder so we to try and impose it on even random things. Children are the way the psychologist observed because they have less knowledge to work with in my opinion, rather than being natural creationists. But that is immaturity and lack of knowledge and concrete reasoning skills rather than a natural creationist position.

YECs are beyond simply childish in their analysis of the world. I've slowly had to come to the opinion there is something fundamentally very wrong with most of them that retards their thinking in some way. Cos tho their thinking and ways of acting are extremely childish, it's not understandable in terms of just being childlike. They are beyond reason like tired toddlers.

Religious belief is very different. RD and some of his fiercest accolytes may like to say it is childish but I've never found it so in most people. For most atheists it is just a matter of not being able to believe rather than feelings of superiority over believers. I'm more with Derren Brown than RD in terms of viewing belief. He has a far more sympathetic and normal atheist view. Which recognises that religion is fine until it falls victim to con artists and fundamentally nasty control freaks.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:39 am

I'm reminded of the verse Mark 10:15:
"Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it" (NIV).
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