Up Coming TV

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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:55 pm

I forgot to mention Episode 2 (BBC2 repeat today at 7pm). I was on tenterhooks because he seemed to be dwelling so much on "fine tuning" and I worried that he might collect another layer of admiring creationists. Fortunately he capped it with the concept of an infinite multiverse, where anything could and would happen. Well, anything natural, that is.
Edited time - it's later than I'd written.
Re-edit: having watched the beginning again, I'm certain that the form of the programme was a mistake. He could have answered his introductory question about fine tuning with the old anecdote of the puddle praising the shape of the hole it was filling.
I can only hope - or, rather, regret - that he's being used as a prominent mouthpiece by programme makers way outside their depth in their own puddles.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:24 pm

Haven't had a chance to watch yet as busy week but the fine tuning argument is really weird for creationists to latch on to in a way. I noticed C4ID used it alongside irreducible complexity. But it don't work cos the fine tuning argument as I understood it was a universe primed to allow intelligent life, almost to make life an inevitable result. Hence one in which life could appear and evolve to give us. All the characteristics there at the start. C4ID so far using that argument correctly.

C4ID then come up with the irreducible complexity stuff. As I understand some features such as bacterial flagella and information too complex to have arisen via natural processes. Again C4ID using that argument correctly.

Then we hit an ID problem. The very natural processes of a fine tuned universe, primed to allow life to begin and flourish does not require a designer to pop down and rustle up a bacterial flagellum or two. The sort of universe that requires a designer to pop down and code some DNA and life has not been very finely tuned.

Now I know creationists (and of cours IDers) are pretty dumb and I know they like dumb arguments. But is it not doubly dumb to have two mutually exclusive dumb arguments? Either the universe I'd finely tuned to produce life and allow evolution or complex stuff has to be individually created and bunged on to earth. That is stupidity taken to new levels.
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Recent TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:51 pm

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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:37 pm

Sounded like There was an interesting thing on kin selection on radio four as I was driving home just now. And someone called EO Wilson who was revising previous ideas about it.

Sadly they wheeled out Richard Dawkins to say something about ants, and as he was last seen channeling the mentality of Dapper laughs I had to switch to CD before he decided to say something about female ants deserving whatever they got if they went out and got drunk. But if anyone can stomach him it sounded interesting. And you an let me know if he managed to avoid any sexism is I can listen.

Anyway sounded like it could be good.
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Recent Radio 4

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:29 pm

cathy wrote:Sounded like There was an interesting thing on kin selection on radio four as I was driving home just now. And someone called EO Wilson who was revising previous ideas about it.

Sadly they wheeled out Richard Dawkins to say something about ants, and as he was last seen channeling the mentality of Dapper laughs I had to switch to CD before he decided to say something about female ants deserving whatever they got if they went out and got drunk. But if anyone can stomach him it sounded interesting. And you an let me know if he managed to avoid any sexism is I can listen.

Anyway sounded like it could be good.


I noticed that was one of the items on today's Inside Science (but didn't listen to the item):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04pc2zn
There's been a disagreement between Richard Dawkins and E O Wilson; I gather the latter is sceptical about kin selection.


PS at 0.30 am
I did listen to the 15 minute item and it was interesting. They spoke to a Professor Adam Hart - who thinks Wilson (and a paper published in Nature) were both mistaken.
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Re: Recent Radio 4

Postby Roger Stanyard » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:00 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:
cathy wrote:Sounded like There was an interesting thing on kin selection on radio four as I was driving home just now. And someone called EO Wilson who was revising previous ideas about it.

Sadly they wheeled out Richard Dawkins to say something about ants, and as he was last seen channeling the mentality of Dapper laughs I had to switch to CD before he decided to say something about female ants deserving whatever they got if they went out and got drunk. But if anyone can stomach him it sounded interesting. And you an let me know if he managed to avoid any sexism is I can listen.

Anyway sounded like it could be good.


I noticed that was one of the items on today's Inside Science (but didn't listen to the item):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04pc2zn
There's been a disagreement between Richard Dawkins and E O Wilson; I gather the latter is sceptical about kin selection.


PS at 0.30 am
I did listen to the 15 minute item and it was interesting. They spoke to a Professor Adam Hart - who thinks Wilson (and a paper published in Nature) were both mistaken.


There is similar coverage of "debate" between Wilson and Dawkins in Prospect magazine. See http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/blogs ... -behaviour
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:22 pm

Just been to see Mockingjay part one (brilliant as all the Hunger Games films have been thus far - plus good role models for girls abounding) and I see a trailer for yet another Old Testament biblical epic. This time it's Moses and Rameses and the films called Exodus - Gods and Kings. Out Dec 26th by looks of it.

Don't think there is any creationist lies from that part of bible? Thought it worth popping on here anyway lest it pop up on their blogs. Directed by Ridley Scott so expect an epic and stunning CGI. The trailer looked lush, massive palaces, plagues of locusts, seas of blood, big bad ass waves.

On another cinematic note I was startled to hear the pre trailer advert for Grand Theft Auto five starting with character saying "I'm a Darwinist". I fear it was in a 'CMI evil killer nasty man way rather than paleontologist drives fast car way round corners ways. Tsk tsk :(

Of course there was the usual old cat/dog mash up for the O2 advert that's better than the old creationist crocoduck.

Anyway not sure Exodus - Gods and Kings will be as relevant as Noah. But reporting it anyway.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:58 pm

Remind me: at c. 2560–2540 BC was the Great Pyramid built just before, during, or just after Noah's fludde?
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:13 pm

Tsk tsk Brian are you using facts again?!
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Peter Henderson » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:36 pm

Anyone watch "Loch Ness the evidence" (Channel 5) and mammoth autopsy (Channel 4) ?

The former debunked a lot of YEC claims.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:57 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:Anyone watch "Loch Ness the evidence" (Channel 5) and mammoth autopsy (Channel 4) ?

The former debunked a lot of YEC claims.


Yes and Yes.

And the opening part of last week's 'Underground Britain' on Five, which featured Kents Cavern in Devon (when I initially tried to add a link for Channel 5/Demand 5 I was greeted with an error message; I am having some problems viewing some pages this evening - it must be because of 'Cyber Monday'?):
http://www.channel5.com/shows/undergrou ... rn-england
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Up Coming Radio

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:05 am

MIGHT be interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vjb5y
"Brian Cox and Robin Ince are joined by Brian Blessed, astronaut Chris Hadfield, bible scholar Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou and the Reverend Richard Coles for a very special festive edition of the show. They'll be taking their own unique look at the Christmas story and the history of the bible and asking whether the christmas story and your view of humanity changes once you've look back at earth from the heavens themselves." A TV and Radio guide refers to "a look through the window of science at the history of the Bible".
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Recent radio

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:13 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:MIGHT be interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vjb5y
"Brian Cox and Robin Ince are joined by Brian Blessed, astronaut Chris Hadfield, bible scholar Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou and the Reverend Richard Coles for a very special festive edition of the show. They'll be taking their own unique look at the Christmas story and the history of the bible and asking whether the christmas story and your view of humanity changes once you've look back at earth from the heavens themselves." A TV and Radio guide refers to "a look through the window of science at the history of the Bible".



According to Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou (a Professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion, and also an atheist for those who may not have not heard of her), at around 18 minutes in, creationists and Bible scholars should also be looking at passages like Isaiah 51 and Psalm 72 - and considering creation myths that are shared with other cultures apart from the ancient Hebrews/Jews. It's all about the 'chaoskampf' and (a/the) God's battles with a chaos monster that he probably created (a sort of water dragon it would appear). She also referred to Genesis 1:2b, after referring to the monster's body being used to form both the heavens and the underworld. And then to the wording of Genesis 2:8 about the garden God planted - she then alluded, I think with wrong biblical references, to Genesis 1:21 which mentions the creation of great creatures of the sea or 'tannin'.

If the YECs or others think that this sounds like rather like baloney (as I suspect non-creationist vicar and ex pop star Rev'd Richard Coles may have done unless he was simply being comical in response to Brian Cox), I have to say (having glanced at the two Bible chapters she particularly mentioned) that I would find it rather hard to insist otherwise. If you want a creation account, I would look at Genesis 1 and 2 sooner than Isaiah 51 and Psalm 72!

Yes, I listened again to the relevant section about four times before completing this post.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vjb5y
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:54 pm

I was thinking of posting about the programme but thought I'd better listen again before I posted. I'll do so more carefully now. Meanwhile, I got the impression that she just called on Isiah and Psalms for confirmation. However, wasn't there also some pointed remark about Genesis having been written later?
On with the headphones, as soon as I have a minute.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:13 pm

Richard Coles of the brilliant Communards?

Also confused by your comments about the giant creatures in a sea of tannin? The sea was once a giant cup of tea? Does that mean God is definitely Irish cos oceans of tea as a panacea for all the worlds ills seems to have been my mum and all my relatives manta for as long as I've lived! Are you sure she said tannin?
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