Up Coming TV

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Up Coming TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:48 pm

On Channel 4 this coming Monday evening:

"Faith Schools Undercover
Dispatches goes undercover to question the role of faith communities in our schools.
The programme hears from those at the heart of the 'Trojan Horse' controversy in Birmingham, and films undercover in a primary school where clapping and whistling are described as 'satanic' practices.
But this is an issue that isn't just about Islam; elsewhere Dispatches uncovers a network of illegal schools where more than 1000 boys are being taught suspicion of the outside world, and the only subject is religion."
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:30 am

Well two points here. The Trojan Horse schools were NOT and I repeat NOT designated faith schools. Not one single one in the whole twenty schools was a faith school. Not one.

Despite a host of articles from the usually brilliant Polly Toynbee implying by omission and vicarious linking, that they were. Despite an even bigger host of misleading by omission and vicarious linking articles from anti faith school organisations like BHA. They were what all the secular organisations like BHA and Toynbee have been fighting for. Schools with NO designated faith and Not even a Christian, Muslim or any other ethos!!!! They were common or garden NON faith schools.

Nor were they result of a need for an Islamic school to gain equality with the existing mainstream CofE and RC faith schools which I've also seen suggested by various anti faith school protestors when they can no longer ignore the 3012 reminders that these were not faith schools. Because there are already state Islamic schools in Birmingham that have a designated faith basis and don't seem to have attracted the same criticism re extremism.

The second issue is the other schools where the key word seems to be 'illegal'

So where exactly is the under covering of the faith schools implied by the title happening?. Is it going to be like Dawkins faith school menace programme where all the mainstream faith schools told him to jog along cos they weren't stupid enough to take part? Leaving him one hard line Islamic school clearly breaching regulations re science teaching and a private ACE school, a statistical finding from the BHA that one (yes that is right, their statistical analysis for the Dawkins programme seemed to consist of one - imprecise use of the word statistics IMHO) Jewish school had 8 hours of RE per week and a couple of disgruntled parents who didn't get into a oversubscribed (bizarre given how awful they were supposed to be) faith school.

This programme seems to be about religious loonies taking over education or running illegal hot beds of indoctrination. The former is the obvious consequence of Gove's policies. I'm amazed the Christian creationists haven't used the academy programme to do the same. The latter seems to be illegal hotbeds of indoctrination. So I can only assume channel four et al will be relabelling hate preacher Anjem Choudery a faith school soon?

So when did everyday faith schools (which everyone is more than entitled to be against as long as they are honest, which let's face it seems to be an anathema to their opponents) suddenly become synonymous with Gove's lunatic policies and their inevitable consequences in allowing freedom to governors with agendas (in this case religious, more often financial) and his even more lunatic policies of free schools allowing genuine NON mainstream loonies to take charge of people's education.

And when exactly are channel four, BHA, Polly Toynbee and all the rest going to wake up and see what is really happening thanks to Gove's policies. For example power to governors of academies to teach as they wish, free from existing regulations about equality, as happened in brum. Free schools allowing extremists like CST and ace schools to apply to become state funded schools and meaning DfE officials waste thousands trying to sniff out the biggest loonies. Money diverted from funding new school places in areas with serious shortages so Gove's pet project of free schools can be funded in areas where there is no need. Or, because of the above, parents having no choice but a lunatic free school, because funding has only gone to the Steiner or extremist Christian or even Sikh or Islamic school and not the normal one because they are free schools!!!!! That would actually be a programme worth watching.
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Re the BBC (and Truth in Science protestations)

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:44 am

Oh dear!
http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/tis2/i ... nfair.html
"It is unfair then, to place Independent Christian Schools in the same category as Islamic fundamentalists, or to misrepresent what they teach as being unscientific". It is not fair to tell the truth - that the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum is not remotely scientific.
"it is Independent Christian Schools that are giving pupils the opportunity to look at both sides of the argument". Hilarious. ACE does not fairly examine the evolution side of the 'argument'.
I am flagging this to Mr Scaramanga since he gets a mention.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:57 am

Wow Ashley TiS has reared its ugly head again.

They're wrong as usual. Apart from what they choose to call their deities and prophets there is no difference whatsoever between the different flavours of extremists and fundamentalists. Denial of science, misogyny, homophobia and a narrow view of the world. I read sobbing Sylvs thesis. Lots of homophobia in the children in the tender care of her schools.

The only reason we're so hung up on the Islamic version is they have guns and a measure of foreignness. Christian creationists are no different in attitude, just less violent and less appealing to the disaffected moronic young.

I'm all for removing the religious adjective from their titles. It's insulting to normal believers and gives the Christian and Islamic (and atheist) fundies some kind of street cred. Let's just call them misogynistic, homophobic morons who can't understand sciencce and suffer from fact phobia. Shouldn't be allowed near children.

Interestingly there is a Christian fundi moron on the radio ranting about women bishops. Women by example in the home blah blah! Think I'm going to explode. Hard to see a difference between him and being told to wear a burkha and not drive as per Saudi. Luckily the CofE seem to be ignoring the throwbacks (like a lot of Muslims and Catholics).

So has Trojan Horse got em scared? Hope So. CST and ACE should certainly be included in any look at fundamentalists running schools.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Roger Stanyard » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:26 pm

cathy wrote:Wow Ashley TiS has reared its ugly head again.

They're wrong as usual. Apart from what they choose to call their deities and prophets there is no difference whatsoever between the different flavours of extremists and fundamentalists. Denial of science, misogyny, homophobia and a narrow view of the world. I read sobbing Sylvs thesis. Lots of homophobia in the children in the tender care of her schools.

The only reason we're so hung up on the Islamic version is they have guns and a measure of foreignness. Christian creationists are no different in attitude, just less violent and less appealing to the disaffected moronic young.



I wouldn't count on that when it comes to the home of Christian fundamentalism, the USA.

The Ku Klux Klan was a Protestant church which had, over its history, some 30,000 pastors as member (see Talkorigins). All the US white supremecist organisations today are tied to fundamentalist Christianity and, as far as I can make out, every militia group bar one requires its members to believe in God.

[edit] Then there are the other gun nuts, notably the extreme Gun Owners of America whose head. Larry Platt, is on record as saying "Nothing less than the second coming of Christ is required to secure Second Amendment rights to unlimited weapons access". Pratt appears to have close connections to Northern Ireland Protestant paramilitaries.

isn't it odd that the US Protestant extremists were happy to promote themselves as "fundamentalists" during the 1980s and 1990s but when they eventual gave fundamentalism a bad name, they started calling themselves evangelicals instead. Having then given evangelicalism a bad name, they now call themselves Bible believing Christians.

I dunno what twerp wrote that piece of rhetoric on the TiS web site but I note that the current scam is to describe those that accept evolution as "secular humanists" indoctrinating a "peculiar" "worldview".

That's an indeological fundamentalist claiming that everyone else with different views is an ideological fundamentalist- being called ugly by a toad, if you like.

The TiS PR puffery piece goes on to say that teaching creationism "far from hindering pupils, actually helps them to think like a true scientist should".

Sure it does. That's why creation science has contributed absolutely zich to the world's body knowledge of science.

Still, whoever wrote the piece seems unhinged beyond his/her fundamentalism. The journalist Paul Johnson is quoted. Rather odd given that Johnson knows nothing about science and it shows. He's also long been unhinged. That why he was long known as "Loonybins".
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:11 pm

I don't know who penned it either Roger but as someone who accepts the evidence for evolution, doesn't believe in anything particularly and is very keen on secularism I object to being called a humanist because I'm most definitely not one. And I object to secularism being hi jacked by both sides to mean atheist because it doesn't.

Evidence for science does not respect religious or secular groups it just is. Humanists are a distinct group who've chosen to define themselves as such as far as I can see, not the opposite of believers. Either way scientific evidence for evolution exists independently of both them and the believers. Nobody has a monopoly on facts. It is evidence that drives the teaching of evolution not opinions, beliefs or ideologies. From either side.

Everyone is entitled to their informed adult opinions regarding belief or otherwise as long as those opinions do not impinge on the rights of others. Children are not informed and therefore should be taught science, equality and tolerance so they can make choices in the future but also know their rights end where someone else's begins. That is what I understand by secularism. The right to private beliefs but not the right to indoctrinate or annoy others. The right to tell people honestly about beliefs or lack of if they want to listen but not the right to lie or shove them down someone's throat.

And I for one am heartily fed up with being called either a secular humanist or believer just for not particularly wanting to be part of anything.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:12 pm

Meanwhile, the programme has finished and I won't be able to watch my recording until late tomorrow. Could someone meanwhile please put me out of my misery by explaining what on earth an "illegal school" is supposed to be? Hasn't Gove done enough to allow lunatic establishments within the law? Whatever might the next "wave" include? :(
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Tonight's TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:08 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Meanwhile, the programme has finished and I won't be able to watch my recording until late tomorrow. Could someone meanwhile please put me out of my misery by explaining what on earth an "illegal school" is supposed to be? Hasn't Gove done enough to allow lunatic establishments within the law? Whatever might the next "wave" include? :(


There are apparently illegal boys only Jewish 'schools' (which the DfE apparently know about and seemingly tolerate) in unmarked buildings in Hackney. Where the students are apparently indoctrinated (sometimes into the evening) in religion only - taught no science AT ALL and taught that everything outside of their religion or religious community is 'evil'. That's what they appeared to be suggesting, though they did not get a hidden camera into actual lessons at any of the illegal schools (a journalist posing as a would-be cleaner filmed - blurred out - shots of up to 50 students in front of desks in a large hall).

I found these:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/1000-lost-jewi ... ls-1456660
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ed ... ystem.html

I assume the parents are complicit in what is happening.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:07 am

Haven't yet seen the programme but I'd just read the stuff about 1000 boys disappearing from mainstream.

I guess they're illegal cos everyone has to be educated between 5 and 16 and anywhere with more than five pupils has to be registered with DfE and satisfy basic health and safety and safeguarding rules. Including things like crb checks.

To miss 1000 children is a bit remiss.

It also sounds like what was featured was breaking a few laws. Namely equality and laws on consent.

Sounds like they weren't satisfying regulations that require broad balanced curriculum.

But what it is worth remembering in the hysteria is they were targeting small, lunatic groups on the fringes of mainstream. Even their own mainstream religions. The response shouldn't be a great swathe of islamaphibia and anti semitism (because even in largely Islamic areas Schools are not like this) but to ensure that all children are protected from this backward looking stance (and that includes the hard line Christians of the CST) by regulating a bare minimum that should be taught and regulating what cannot be taught. When I last looked race hate was a crime as was lack of consent.

By the way took a group of year nines to a chemistry talk last week. Also in attendance was Park View, the school at the heart of Trojan Horse. Was disturbed to see every single girl in a hijab and long skirt. Rare to see such a lot of girls all covering their heads. Cos not all Muslim girls choose to!
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:38 pm

Well I've watched it now and am non the wiser.

The Trojan horse was same stuff heard before. The Jewish school interior filming was brief and amounted to the reporter asking for a job.

The tauheedul primary school, a free school, was the most enlightening has had the most filming done. Again a bit confused but clapping is entertainment for satan and music banned. Ha if it wasn't a free school it would have to have music.

ACE got a mention but not a very big one.

All in all no wiser than before watching.

Oh and zero explanations of differences between school types and not made very clear that Trojan horse schools are academies. All in all a bit of a non event.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:59 am

cathy wrote:All in all a bit of a non event.
Not quite. One thing came out very clearly: that the DfE knew all about the illegal Jewish schools and didn't care a jot. Just as they knew about the censoring of exam papers. It's quite clear that governments are prepared to pander to fundamentalist religious groups - at least until someone finds out and makes a fuss.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby cathy » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:44 pm

True, but there was little explanation of when they knew and how long they'd been trying to tackle it. Tho it is a disgrace they haven't already gone in and closed them. That is open to DfE under safeguarding and health and safety. But then again I've watched other channel four programmes that have bee dubious in accuracy, so I'm still dubious here.

The exam board scandal was the exam boards as I understood it. Probably done as some kind of confused lip service to inclusivity rather than genuine pandering. My big worry now is whether they'll resolve the issue themselves by removing a lot of the questions about evolution full stop. That will need watching. Be well worth looking at future exam papers to check. Evolution was desperately under represented as it was. It would be easy for them to tweak the small no of questions to avoid issues.

Also I'm not sure why the school was allowed to keep its licence to do exams. They should have removed that. Not much about it in the programme. Should have been.

But nowadays what rational, trustworthy groups are there to keep a sort of eye on things. Apart from bcse, there is nobody to monitor the issues. And that's becoming a big ask of a small voluntary group with Gove's reforms. So I'm concerned.
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Tonight's TV

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:38 pm

Rudolf Steiner drivel, and controversy over what may be being taught at Steiner Free Schools in the UK today, is the lead on tonight's Newsnight as I type this.I think the BHA have a leaked DfE memo. Concerns about teachers possibly condoning bullying of students.
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:14 pm

Not leaked, it seems - sounded more like FoI (I watched it this morning). Their spokeswoman seemed very keen to reject Steiner's anthroposophy. Maybe spokespeople for other Free Schools will now be queuing up to follow suit and reject Gove's lunacy?
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Re: Up Coming TV

Postby Peter Henderson » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:14 pm

A wee bit off topic but not unrelated to the original post.

TBN UK starts on Freeview channel 65 on the 5th January 2015.

Apart from Revelation TV on the internet channels (last time I checked it was no longer there) this is the first religious TV channel to broadcast terrestrially in the UK.

TBN broadcasts Carl Baugh's "creation in the 21st century".

Currently showing a continuous promo loop.
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