The next phase for creationists in the UK?

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Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:20 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:However, there was a young lady from Ryde,


There was a young lady from Ryde
On whom Brian Jordan spied:
“My granddad was a notorious CSM nutter”
“Who thought evilution a dangerous flutter”
And thus lied all the time 'til he died
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Dembski comes out as a creationist

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:06 pm

I'm too whacked at the moment to cut and paste, but PZ Myers records Dembski's admission here: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... prised.php and there's a longer quote on RatSkep: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/creat ... 14338.html
So now we know why CfID are waving BeHe and not Dembski - as someone on RS says, the wheels are falling off the ID waggon.
Edit: the source, if not the ultimate one, is Panda's Thumb: http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2010/10 ... oming.html
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:47 pm

I've very recently posted about Noble and the Centre for ID at the Behe thread though arguably it was just as relevant here. A recent BBC podcast interview with Noble.
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:04 am

Here's one for Noble, Nevin and Behe to try and catch:
Sir David Attenborough shortly to present a series on the BBC considering the origins of life. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vl3ln Fortunately they've resisted any temptation to call the main series 'Attenborough on abiogenesis'!
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A new conspiracy?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:44 pm

Creationists and warming-deniers gathered in the South of France this Summer, sponsored by a "youngish billionaire". No names, no exact venue, no pack drill. However, Christopher Booker was there among the dozen or so "top scientists" and let that much slip in this ludicrously bad article: http://newstaging.spectator.widearea.co ... ding.thtml (a lot of scrolling is needed to find the text - perhaps the editor didn't really want people to read it).

It's all over the web but nobody so far has been able to discover who the billionaire and the scientists were (with the possible exception of Richard Sternberg). So, powerful men meeting secretly in a luxury villa? Failing any facts, we can only use our imagination and wonder... where were the C4ID boys spending their Summer holidays hatching their new organisation? Were they getting advice on off-shore accounts from a billionaire? Did they stop off in Guernsey on their way back to Glasgow? One can only wonder.
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Re: A new conspiracy?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:23 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Creationists and warming-deniers gathered in the South of France this Summer, sponsored by a "youngish billionaire". No names, no exact venue, no pack drill. However, Christopher Booker was there among the dozen or so "top scientists" and let that much slip in this ludicrously bad article: http://newstaging.spectator.widearea.co ... ding.thtml (a lot of scrolling is needed to find the text - perhaps the editor didn't really want people to read it).

It's all over the web but nobody so far has been able to discover who the billionaire and the scientists were (with the possible exception of Richard Sternberg). So, powerful men meeting secretly in a luxury villa? Failing any facts, we can only use our imagination and wonder... where were the C4ID boys spending their Summer holidays hatching their new organisation? Were they getting advice on off-shore accounts from a billionaire? Did they stop off in Guernsey on their way back to Glasgow? One can only wonder.


The "report" was written by the ageing Christopher Booker who is somewhat out of his depth on the subjects he writes about. His first degree is in history. It appears that journalists who understand and accept mainstream science were not invited.

The odds seem to be on the billionaire being Templeton Jnr but it's irrevent whether he is a billionaire or not; one's knowledge of science is not determined by how much money you inherited from someone else.

Basically this was an event organised and financed by an unnamed person which attracted an unknown number of scientists all of which are unnamed and of unknown background and status who discussed an unknown agenda and nobody is saying what they decided. Apparently one of the scientists may be worried about his academic position but nobody is supposed to know what institution he works for or who he is but this is definetly evidence of mass discrimination against creationists and those who accept climate change.

Booker appears to be a conspiracy theorist and old phoney - "I'm really important and clever because I've been to a very important top secret meeting of scientists who agree with me and I'm not telling you oiks anything about it".

Not much of a piece of journalism, is it?

0 out of 10.

[I've seen bad, junk, dishonest, fraudulent and incompetent journalism in my time but never ever as bad as this. This is in a league of its own. No wonder the editor tried to hide it.]
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:26 pm

When I contacted Truth in Science to purchase 'Explore Evolution' I was referred to webmaster@exploreevolution.co.uk. The person in question was a David Williams and I think he was based on either Guernsey or Jersey (I can't recall which).
This may be a complete red herring.
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Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:30 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:When I contacted Truth in Science to purchase 'Explore Evolution' I was referred to webmaster@exploreevolution.co.uk. The person in question was a David Williams and I think he was based on either Guernsey or Jersey (I can't recall which).
This may be a complete red herring.


It looks to me to be very significant. It explains why Guernsey is being used. The IDers have a trading operation in the Channel Islands. Basically any money made from the trading (selling) of Explore Evolution are tax free.

Basically how it works is that any profits from the sales arising in Guernsey are taxable. However, if the profits are handed over to a charity registered in Guernsey, the tax can be claimed back by the charity. All of it. In the UK, this would, in principle, not be allowed.

Thanks Ashely. It's explained a lot.
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Postby cathy » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:26 pm

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Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:51 pm

cathy wrote:Found this when typed in id and guernsey www.thisisguernsey.com/2010/10/12/id or could be www.thisisguernsey.com/2010/10/12/no-pl ... s-thinking
Excellent work, Cathy. You've opened a rich new seam - and John Langlois seems to have upset a lot of the locals with his advocacy. Pun intended - no doubt his fine legal brain helped his friends formulate their small print. (The second link is the one which works, btw.) I'm off to eat, now, but a name well worth a Google! (Other search engines may do even better.)
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:15 pm

No mention of Intelligent Design here. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... elicalism/
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Postby Roger Stanyard » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:01 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:No mention of Intelligent Design here. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... elicalism/


Looks like we may have stumbled across the Mr Big behind C4ID - he openly brags that he is looking to set up Guernsey as the centre for ID in Europe. He's got an operation with basically the same name as the Nevin/Galloway/Noble/Loose outfit, he's exceedingly well connected (an executive council member of the WEA), wants to politicise evangelism and knows the political ropes.
Last edited by Roger Stanyard on Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jon_12091 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:43 am

Roger Stanyard wrote:
a_haworthroberts wrote:No mention of Intelligent Design here. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... elicalism/


Looks like we may have stumbled across the Mr Big behind C4ID - he openly brags that it is looking to set up Guernsey as the centre for ID in Europe. He's got an operation with basically the same nane as the Nevin/Galloway/Noble/Loose outfit, he's exceedingly well connected (an executive council member of the WEA), wants to politicise evangelism and knows the political ropes.


I assume everyone noticed he was fomerly a member of the island's council. The issue also crops up on the This is Guernsey forum though to no great interest.
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Postby Roger Stanyard » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:39 pm

jon_12091 wrote:
Roger Stanyard wrote:
a_haworthroberts wrote:No mention of Intelligent Design here. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... elicalism/


Looks like we may have stumbled across the Mr Big behind C4ID - he openly brags that it is looking to set up Guernsey as the centre for ID in Europe. He's got an operation with basically the same nane as the Nevin/Galloway/Noble/Loose outfit, he's exceedingly well connected (an executive council member of the WEA), wants to politicise evangelism and knows the political ropes.


I assume everyone noticed he was fomerly a member of the island's council. The issue also crops up on the This is Guernsey forum though to no great interest.


One thing is all a bit odd about this; the Channel Islands are not a natural home for creationism. Creationism and ID in Britain tend to be products of the Celtic fringe (see NI and C4ID for example). Even the apparently English creationists/IDers look to me to be of Celtic origins - you couldn't get names more Scotch that Andy McIntosh or David Anderson. The "Jones" in Arthur Jones is, of course, a Welsh name and Monty White is also Welsh. Even John "Necrophilia" Mackay has a Scottish surname.

The CIs are not Celtic and not Calvinistic. The main denominations there are Anglican and Methodist.
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Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:41 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote: He's got an operation with basically the same name as the Nevin/Galloway/Noble/Loose outfit, he's exceedingly well connected (an executive council member of the WEA), wants to politicise evangelism and knows the political ropes.
You had me going for a moment Roger - I thought WEA was the Workers' Educational Association. But no, it's the World Evangelical Alliance. Better for education, worse for Christianity, I suppose.
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