The next phase for creationists in the UK?

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Postby BalbKubrox » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:34 am

Peter Loose anyone?


I had the misfortune to work for an IT company of his at the end of the 1980s, and while we have to be careful about libel, let's say that it wasn't an experience that I'd willingly repeat.

In view of the state the pension fund was in when the company went bust in 1990 and was bought out, his present activities as a pension-fund advisor will raise many hollow laughs among his former employees, who took years to sort out the mess.

All I can say is, the cause of Creationism in the UK needs more public champions like that. I certainly wouldn't buy a dinosaur's egg from him.
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Re: The next phase for creationists in the UK?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:22 pm

psiloiordinary wrote:http://www.c4id.org.uk/
We are doing some research into C4ID. It looks as if the de facto head is Alastair Noble who is well connected in the Scottish education sector. He looks to be a member of the Brethren - as is, IIRC, Norman Nevin. Noble's church is also a substantial one with some 250 congregation members (the average for a church in ENgland and Wales is 59).

What is really puzzling to me is that Noble and Nevin have had close connections to the mainstream YEC movment in the UK, notably Truth in Science (and also that ghastly pilloch David Anderson). But with the formation of C4ID we now have two organisations promoting ID in the UK. Have the creationists yet again fallen out with each other?

I'll also stab at a guess and say that C4ID will go nowhere. Noble looks to be in retirement and Nevin certainly is. Peter Loose is also retired. Setting up dynamic organisations needs some element of youthfulness.
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Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:46 pm

Paul Braterman wrote:But if people like Doctor Galloway choose to be associated with this kind of thing, and in doing so refer to honours and offices that they legitimately hold, I didn't see what we can or even should do about it, apart from, obviously, attempting to minimise their influence.


There is a clear way of using their claimed honours and offices against them. I've just looked at a lobbying exrecise involving Noble, Galloway and a pile of TiS people where they give their normal job titles (mostly in academia) and qualifications.

There is nothing to stop us pointing out that both the positions and titles are laregly irrelvent. Being an engineer and an academic does not qualify anyone to determine or influence the biology curriculum. The Dec 2009 letter was an absurd example of such lobbying (I'll dig it out later).

Better still is for us to ten point out that all of them are pushing a religious position, not a sientific position, pointing out that most of them are young earth creationsts who think the Flinestones is a documentary, the Noah's Ark story to be precise, accurate history and any that contradicts their religious position must,be wrong.

All this requires some more research by us. I'm working on it now but could do with some help. Even small snippets of info will help. I'm particularly interested in who Dr David Galloway is.
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Re: The next phase for creationists in the UK?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:56 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:Alastair Noble who is well connected in the Scottish education sector. He looks to be a member of the Brethren - as is, IIRC, Norman Nevin.
How have you spotted that, Roger? The charity he's associated with says it's "mainstream Christian" - wouldn't the brothers shun such a thing?
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Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:17 pm

BalbKubrox wrote:
Peter Loose anyone?


I had the misfortune to work for an IT company of his at the end of the 1980s, and while we have to be careful about libel, let's say that it wasn't an experience that I'd willingly repeat.

In view of the state the pension fund was in when the company went bust in 1990 and was bought out, his present activities as a pension-fund advisor will raise many hollow laughs among his former employees, who took years to sort out the mess.

All I can say is, the cause of Creationism in the UK needs more public champions like that. I certainly wouldn't buy a dinosaur's egg from him.


Was the company by any chance called Megaset?
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Re: The next phase for creationists in the UK?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:19 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:
Roger Stanyard wrote:Alastair Noble who is well connected in the Scottish education sector. He looks to be a member of the Brethren - as is, IIRC, Norman Nevin.
How have you spotted that, Roger? The charity he's associated with says it's "mainstream Christian" - wouldn't the brothers shun such a thing?


His church has no pastor.
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:53 pm

Having done a search under 'Alastair Noble' (who's mentioned once in the article) I came across this misleading propaganda piece. http://www.lifebite.co.uk/index.php/hom ... gn_debate/ Which falsely alleges that 'The Greatest Show on Earth' failed to address the issue of life's origins. And ignores the fact that in Kitzmiller vs Dover Judge Jones found that "the overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labelling of creationism, and not a scientific theory".
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Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:31 pm

Alastair Noble who is well connected in the Scottish education sector. He looks to be a member of the Brethren - as is, IIRC, Norman Nevin.


Professor Norman Nevin is a member of the Crescent Church in Belfast and a lay preacher there. The church is open Brethren and would be considered to be on the more liberal wing of the denomination.

Noble has spoken at the church in the past, a couple of years ago if I remember correctly. I've also noticed Noble was speaking at today's evening service:

http://www.crescentchurch.org/

Sunday 26th September @ 7:00pm

"Education or brainwashing"

(Series: Apologetics)

Speaker: Alistair Noble


Which no doubt will demonstrate that many have been brainwahed to believe in eviloution.

By the way, the church is in the university area of Belfast, close to QUB, Stranmillas College, and the Ulster Museum. It attracts a lot of students and young people (20's and 30's).
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Re: The next phase for creationists in the UK?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:40 am

Roger Stanyard wrote:
psiloiordinary wrote:http://www.c4id.org.uk/


Oit of Northern Ireland?

I note the President is Norman Nevin. I vaguely recall Alsistar Noble but have no idea who Dr David Galloway is. Nevin, of course, appears to have backed YECism before turning away.

Well, the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons, Glasgow, Scotland now appears to have no credibility whatsovere.

What's the betting that Noble and Galloway are practising members of Calvinistic churches?


More Digging around appears to confirm that Noble's current attampts to influence education are not exactly confined to his limited knowledge of evolutionary biology or geology. Noble also appraes to be ab activist in CARE (see http://www.christianstogether.net/Artic ... th_in.aspx ) so I sugest his position isc loser to the DI's ambition of social re-engineering that we initially knew. CARE is a political lobbying organisation which describes itself thus:

"CARE is a well-established mainstream Christian charity providing resources and helping to bring Christian insight and experience to matters of public policy and practical caring initiatives. CARE is represented in the UK Parliaments and Assemblies, at the EU in Brussels and the UN in Geneva and New York."

And (the giveaway) "CARE for Scotland and Evangelical Alliance Scotland are collaborating in a campaign to encourage Christians to stand as candidates in the Council elections in 2012. "
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Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:08 am

Someone on the Guardian discusses suggested looking a bit more closely at Mission Scotland with Alastair Noble is connected. They are pushing street pastors (shades of Andy McIntosh) and
HEALING ROOMS Registered as a Charity SCO37631

Healing Rooms have been operating in Scotland since 2004, and as of May 2010 there are 39 rooms open across the nation. There are currently 5 rooms in Glasgow and others in nearby towns such as East Kilbride, Johnstone and Kilsyth.

A Healing Room is simply a place where anyone can come to receive free prayer for healing of any condition where they will be prayed for in a private setting by a team of trained Christian volunteers who come from various churches.

Other activities include: street ministry in the heart of Glasgow every Saturday evening, outreach into Kilmarnock Prison every Friday afternoon, and teams going into psychic fairs several times a year.

We have seen many people healed physically, emotionally and mentally, and a significant number of people come to faith in Christ.
Hmm, I wonder what the Dr David Galloway, Vice President of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons, Glasgow, thinks about that?
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Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:52 pm

Hmm, I wonder what the Dr David Galloway, Vice President of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons, Glasgow, thinks about that?


Since he's an evangelical Christian Brian, probably not a lot as healing services, including the "laying on of hands" would be fairly commonplace in evangelical circles, particularly on the pentecostal end of things.

As a Christian, I obviously have nothing against praying for the sick.

I'd be more concerned if Mission Scotland were pushing YECism as doctrine. I'm still not sure if Noble is a YEC or not.
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Postby BalbKubrox » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:20 pm

Was the company by any chance called Megaset?


Not to my knowledge: though his companies and those he was involved with had a number of subsiduaries at various times. The one I worked for was an offshoot of the main company, which was called European Electronic Systems and was based at Woodham Ferrers near Chelmsford.

EES had a very poor reputation among IT engineers in the region: not least because promotion there was said to be more dependent upon assiduity in attending prayer meetings rather than demonstrable ability at designing circuits. Evidently having Jesus on the board as an executive director wasn't a terribly good idea, because the firm went bust in 1990.

Peter Loose was so loved by us all at the branch I worked for that he was popularly known as "Loosifer".

One thing I learnt from the experience was never, ever to have anything to do with any company run by ostentatious God-Botherers. They're not just as bad as the general run of companies, they're actually a lot worse.
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:28 pm

Did anyone read the whole of this article by that well-known scientist Christopher Booker? I couldn’t – late last night - summon it up on the Spectator website (which I assume isn’t now charging for full access). http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id ... ws+Blog%29
It was flagged at the CMI Facebook page.
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Postby Michael » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:05 pm

There is a close correlation of anti-global warming and YEC - ICR AIG CMI and necrophiliac Mackay are all GW denoiers

I am writing it up for a book chapter in a book on religion and global warming
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:24 pm

Some may be genuine AGW sceptics (Booker is - I don't think he's particularly religious).

Some may use it to point out the imperfections of scientists and of human science/knowledge, their real target being evolutionary theory.
Some may think to themselves "climate chaos? bring it on!" because they think environmental chaos, floods, droughts, hurricanes, wars for resources or land, starvation, disease etc sounds rather like Revelation and will usher in the Second Coming.
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